Linkie, you say most want to go Naxx. We have 100+ players in our guild, "most" of those would atleast be 50+, how come when we planned on going Naxx, we stood there with 20-25 something ppl?
My opinion about progress is only: It would be fun to see it, I don't need it to have fun with my friends
I still remeber the "good old" days when I was rather new, hadn't raided MC alot. Ava chasing Dreamer with Golemagg, and when Ava got his bindings he got all quiet on vent and if I'm not mistaken he was "rather happy" (bounced around the room did you?)
I don't care what we raid, I don't care if we raid, all I care about is that we have fun together, imo you can have just as fun in MC as in Naxx if not more fun, because Naxx requires that you focus alot more on the task, rather then let you relax and enjoy the raid. I'm not saying ppl should just semi sleep while we're in MC, that's when ppl end up dead :P (Unless your called Feitan and is a master of stealing aggro).
If I got to make the decision alone, I would stop the DKP / scheduled raids, raid when we have the ppl online that want to go somewhere. I do enjoy leading raids, but I'm sick and tired of leading raids where I have to yell at people to get them to focus. You would think we have done BWL so many times that everyone knows what to do, or atleast 35 in every raid. Yet a raid whiped on Nef with the easiest combination of colors you can get, and then we come back the day after with less ppl and wtfpwn him.
I miss the good old days when things were more relaxed, I don't know where it went wrong and I won't point finger at anyone, I just wish that ppl would think really hard and long on what matters to them, what is SSX to them, is it a guild that raids, or are we a community outside of WoW aswell? This is a question that is important to think of imo, because many in the WoW EU guild seem to forget we have others in our community out there, that play other games. I would say that perhaps half of our guild are either ppl that don't even read the forums at all, or they read and don't post. Those that don't even bother to surf the forums, myself I wonder what they do in SSX.
Disbanding the guild, that is for me the final option, and I think Quiz did right in bringing this up here, yes it may have been to scare you, but it's also true, we need to do something about the situation we have now and we need to do it sooner than later. If we don't do something soon, it's gonna get out of control I think, and it's at that time the only option left will be to disband the guild.
And as a final opinion from me, I think it would be wrong to let ppl be in the community but not in the guild, don't ask me why but that's how I feel, can't really give any reasons.
Disbanding the guild?
Moderator: Global Moderators
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Sondemon
- Posts: 403
- Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 2:20 am
- Location: Stockholm, Sweden
There is a cow level, and it's called MULGORE!
"I can still hear the laughter echo, and the taste of blood in my mouth.."
"I can still hear the laughter echo, and the taste of blood in my mouth.."
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NightDreams
- Posts: 220
- Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 11:18 am
- Location: Bristol, UK
I have been in the SSX before WoW came out i was there when we made the guild and have been active in game since that time.
As far as i know i am the only long standing mod that hasnt taken a break from 40man raiding, i tryed and was asked to return to help the guild i did so. From 7 days of my break i returned to raid on 6 of them and on the 7th qd and ava both stopped playing.
Raiding is a big part of wow whether we like it or not, it is.
Some love raiding others dont, some love doing the same things over and over, others want to try and push themselves and push the game to see what it holds.
I wont deny i enjoy raiding and i think we had a chance to push ourselves to be along side the hardcore guilds at one point but we didnt we slowed and then almost stopped. People have left or gone inactive due to are slow down.
Summer has also been a problem for us as with many guilds and now people are saying they may take a break and wait for the addon.
If the guild has to die then let it do so.
We are here to have fun if the game is no longer fun then look at why its not.
I see no reason to pay for a game i dont enjoy and if i didnt enjoy wow i wouldnt be playing anymore but i am and i will keep playing.
If the SSX in wow stops i know i will keep playing, where i end up i got no idea really but i will still be part of the SSX.
People should be free to chose what they want to do and what is fun for them.
People have left most i call friends and have been sad to see them go, im not mad at them for it they are doing what they find fun and thats how it should be.
This is just my opinon but if people cant ahve fun with the SSX in wow it doesnt mean u have to leave the SSX altoghter.
If people wish to do that fine, i have np with that but would be sad to lose those people from the SSX i feel.
Anyway thats about it from me. People should be free to make their choice and not feel they have to stay in the guidl to stay in the SSX.
Mip
As far as i know i am the only long standing mod that hasnt taken a break from 40man raiding, i tryed and was asked to return to help the guild i did so. From 7 days of my break i returned to raid on 6 of them and on the 7th qd and ava both stopped playing.
Raiding is a big part of wow whether we like it or not, it is.
Some love raiding others dont, some love doing the same things over and over, others want to try and push themselves and push the game to see what it holds.
I wont deny i enjoy raiding and i think we had a chance to push ourselves to be along side the hardcore guilds at one point but we didnt we slowed and then almost stopped. People have left or gone inactive due to are slow down.
Summer has also been a problem for us as with many guilds and now people are saying they may take a break and wait for the addon.
If the guild has to die then let it do so.
We are here to have fun if the game is no longer fun then look at why its not.
I see no reason to pay for a game i dont enjoy and if i didnt enjoy wow i wouldnt be playing anymore but i am and i will keep playing.
If the SSX in wow stops i know i will keep playing, where i end up i got no idea really but i will still be part of the SSX.
People should be free to chose what they want to do and what is fun for them.
People have left most i call friends and have been sad to see them go, im not mad at them for it they are doing what they find fun and thats how it should be.
This is just my opinon but if people cant ahve fun with the SSX in wow it doesnt mean u have to leave the SSX altoghter.
If people wish to do that fine, i have np with that but would be sad to lose those people from the SSX i feel.
Anyway thats about it from me. People should be free to make their choice and not feel they have to stay in the guidl to stay in the SSX.
Mip
Lies can be good, If they are put to good use.
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QuantumDelta
- Posts: 1051
- Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 5:51 pm
- Location: Bristol, England.
Okay, time to continue nudging this back on track.
This thread is about doing, it's about working.
Since there has been no realistic suggestions as to how to fix and overcome the problems, and get *everyone* to work, rather than a few (who have lost faith, and this is the reason this post is here) trying to support an unrealistic many.
The "Split" plan worked as so: (Please realise this is a work in progress and was supposed to be worked on by four people for another 10+ days before it was going to be presented to the guild).
Most of it is what I've heard bounced around by the mods, and ideas from my own head.
Refinement, removal and addition to these ideas is free flowing and hardly anything on that list is set in stone (those that are more solidified, regard the interaction between the two guilds, though they may still be edited).
I am personally going to be having to make a decision myself, about my own future as so seems apparent from the IRC conversation BD Ed and I had earlier.
This thread is about doing, it's about working.
Since there has been no realistic suggestions as to how to fix and overcome the problems, and get *everyone* to work, rather than a few (who have lost faith, and this is the reason this post is here) trying to support an unrealistic many.
The "Split" plan worked as so: (Please realise this is a work in progress and was supposed to be worked on by four people for another 10+ days before it was going to be presented to the guild).
- Any player can choose which guild they may enter initially.
- Said player will be expected to meet certain (gear irrelevent for the most part) set of criteria.
- Both guilds will have their /g, and /o priviledges disabled for every single member of the guild
- Both guilds will use one shared global channel.
- Both guilds membership status will be equal, neither is superior, or inferior.
- DKP Will be carried over to the raiding guild.
- People who fall below the pre-mentioned criteria over time or after joining the raiding guild, will be given the choice to rejoin the more casual guild, or leave the group in general.
- No person will be ridiculed for choosing to join the casual group, however there will be a waiting period before you can rejoin the raiding guild if you should do so.
- Both guilds will have their own Electorate - all positions of standing in both guilds will be voted upon.
- Both guilds will recieve their own moderator teams, these teams will be seperate groups that will regularly meet up and discuss ongoing problems and new improvements they've found.
- Both guilds will be allowed to raid, however only the raiding guild will do so in a structured process.
- The raiding guild may choose to allow people in the casual guild to raid with them - the people in the casual guild should feel under no duress or pressure to join them.
- The casual guild may choose to raid instances (realistically, 20 mans, onyxia and molten core only but if they can go further it's up to them), the casual guilds moderators may also choose to run PuGs for said instances - allowing more of the server to experience somewhat end game content (if they wish!).
- People will conduct themselves as they would in the previous guild - A Proud member of the SSX.
- People will show the same compassion and community as in the previous guild.
- Members must contribute - the idea behind the raiding guild is mostly, to even out the level of contribution between members, from the superhuman contributors to the non-contributors, a part of the stress in the previous guild is due to that varience.
- People will be expected to have reagents on them in preparation for the raid.
- People will be expected to be specced for PvE performance as primary (Hybridised specs are up for discussion with your class leader).
- People will be expected to look for loot for PvE purposes, as primary.
- People will be expected to bring specials, and farm for pots and flasks for the guilds purposes - they will be refunded this via the guild bank as currently works in the existing guild.
- People will be expected to attend a raid they have signed for.
- Raids will be organised on a scheduled - time tabled basis, people will most likely be raiding less than in the current guild, but for the target of optimising raid time, due to this people will be expected to maintain a minimum of at least 1 progression raid per week, unless it has been discussed with their class leader.
- Class leaders will be expected to maintain attendance tabs on their class members.
- No Alts unless the raid leader has requested an alt be present - we're tired of running MC just to gear peoples mess about once a month play chars.
- Alts are either to be kept guildless, or in the casual guild (preference for obvious reasons).
- Members are responcible for their problems, and these problems should be brought up with either the moderators, or their class leader, or both.
- Shying away from progression content (C'Thun/Naxx/Whatever) will be frowned upon and if a trend is noted will be investigated and dealt with - the point of this guild, again, is to level out the amount of input people give, to raise the lower end and hopefully lower the top end contributions from it's players.
Most of it is what I've heard bounced around by the mods, and ideas from my own head.
Refinement, removal and addition to these ideas is free flowing and hardly anything on that list is set in stone (those that are more solidified, regard the interaction between the two guilds, though they may still be edited).
I am personally going to be having to make a decision myself, about my own future as so seems apparent from the IRC conversation BD Ed and I had earlier.
"Then, to hide their frailty, they hurt those who are kind.
I whisper farewell to this ugly world and dance nimbly with brilliant wings of red."
I whisper farewell to this ugly world and dance nimbly with brilliant wings of red."
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Brittfire
- Posts: 291
- Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2005 1:17 am
Mmmmmmmm
Mmmm
Mmmmmmmmmmm...
i say we put "hardcore" and "casual" in the comments and start from there, recruit the needed hardcore from the server, push c'thun and naxx and let those that really want mc to organise it themselves, even if it means going back to square 1, it just means the casuals get a little fun stuff to do :P (for a fact we have enough alt warrs for crying out loud!)
another thing, for many raids alot of the "fun" has been draining away, which leeds to the kinda slack attitudes that have developed over time. if we want to keep everybody on their toes, i say we try new things, like crazy random assed tactics in mc, just fun and games for those who wish! (i for 1 want to play a game of kiting with 4 hunters, a core hound and a pack of jellybeans)
(crazy tactics of yonder include ava deciding to tank all of garrs adds with a crotchet hat on and armeds decision that i should kite a boss between tanks.... oh fun :P )
other suggestions for light releaf and stuff will be helpfull too, just no "league system" for the garr games
(i'll be more serious about this matter once i've had my beauty sleep)
Mmmm
Mmmmmmmmmmm...
i say we put "hardcore" and "casual" in the comments and start from there, recruit the needed hardcore from the server, push c'thun and naxx and let those that really want mc to organise it themselves, even if it means going back to square 1, it just means the casuals get a little fun stuff to do :P (for a fact we have enough alt warrs for crying out loud!)
another thing, for many raids alot of the "fun" has been draining away, which leeds to the kinda slack attitudes that have developed over time. if we want to keep everybody on their toes, i say we try new things, like crazy random assed tactics in mc, just fun and games for those who wish! (i for 1 want to play a game of kiting with 4 hunters, a core hound and a pack of jellybeans)
(crazy tactics of yonder include ava deciding to tank all of garrs adds with a crotchet hat on and armeds decision that i should kite a boss between tanks.... oh fun :P )
other suggestions for light releaf and stuff will be helpfull too, just no "league system" for the garr games
(i'll be more serious about this matter once i've had my beauty sleep)
TBC update
tomato ketchup will be a required reagent for feign death and rogues can apply huntersmark with a crayon!
tomato ketchup will be a required reagent for feign death and rogues can apply huntersmark with a crayon!
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Sondemon
- Posts: 403
- Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 2:20 am
- Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Druid MT? 
There is a cow level, and it's called MULGORE!
"I can still hear the laughter echo, and the taste of blood in my mouth.."
"I can still hear the laughter echo, and the taste of blood in my mouth.."
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Linkie
- Posts: 461
- Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2005 12:50 pm
- Location: The Netherlands, Haarlem
i am kinda againt the casual and hardcore guild thing cause i really want to raid but i just cant make all the raid things ... cause i have skool work and my gf ... so i would be kicked to casual and not raid BWL and AQ ... i think that would be kinda to boring * in raiding perspective 
* but ill just see
* but ill just seeWoW:
NE Rogue LvL 60 Called Linkie
GW:
Eli/Mon LvL 8 Called Sakura The Small
NE Rogue LvL 60 Called Linkie
GW:
Eli/Mon LvL 8 Called Sakura The Small
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Sondemon
- Posts: 403
- Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 2:20 am
- Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Linkie, attendancy wouldn't be like other hardcore guilds, it wouldn't be you have to be there for xx% of the raids, it would be more like, you sign up when you can, or say when you join, I can raid this and this much per week. So we have reliable ppl and know when we can raid. This is needed for progression.
On a more personal note, I don't know wether or not I'd chose the casual bit, or the raiding bit. That's still something I think of, where do I want to go?
On a more personal note, I don't know wether or not I'd chose the casual bit, or the raiding bit. That's still something I think of, where do I want to go?
There is a cow level, and it's called MULGORE!
"I can still hear the laughter echo, and the taste of blood in my mouth.."
"I can still hear the laughter echo, and the taste of blood in my mouth.."
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SoulSeeker
- Posts: 299
- Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2004 8:02 pm
- Location: Scotland
What more can be said...Mr Qd and CL's and Mods have made thier minds up,its not set in stone but the motions are moving.
All that can be done is decide which 'side' you want to be on casual or Hardcore and lets get on with it.
The Guild wont disband, well it might but there are too many ppl who want to be together it would just resurrect as a different name.
Its quite liberating to see such solidarity between members in the face of the guild disbanding which shows SSX will never die.
PS. I said 'side' but i didnt mean there would be a them and us situation.
All that can be done is decide which 'side' you want to be on casual or Hardcore and lets get on with it.
The Guild wont disband, well it might but there are too many ppl who want to be together it would just resurrect as a different name.
Its quite liberating to see such solidarity between members in the face of the guild disbanding which shows SSX will never die.
PS. I said 'side' but i didnt mean there would be a them and us situation.
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Lightforge
- Posts: 105
- Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2005 12:19 pm
- Location: In your house
Well this is better than people leaving or joining another guild... Can the raiding guild have Kanes lobster tabard? please!
No.. I didn't know about the set when I made the character! :|
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Linkie
- Posts: 461
- Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2005 12:50 pm
- Location: The Netherlands, Haarlem
Sondemon wrote:Linkie, attendancy wouldn't be like other hardcore guilds, it wouldn't be you have to be there for xx% of the raids, it would be more like, you sign up when you can, or say when you join, I can raid this and this much per week. So we have reliable ppl and know when we can raid. This is needed for progression.
On a more personal note, I don't know wether or not I'd chose the casual bit, or the raiding bit. That's still something I think of, where do I want to go?
aaaahhh ok thnx m8 for clearing that up <33
WoW:
NE Rogue LvL 60 Called Linkie
GW:
Eli/Mon LvL 8 Called Sakura The Small
NE Rogue LvL 60 Called Linkie
GW:
Eli/Mon LvL 8 Called Sakura The Small
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Eolas
- Posts: 120
- Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2006 7:43 pm
- Location: Malta
A huge thumbs up for QD and all the unnamed others invlolved in setting up the aforementioned guidelines. <3 you all and sterling work as usual guys!
If the more casual guild want to organise an MC run - will there be the possibility of a member in the raiding guild being invited to join them - both for support and even for say a piece of gear that would be still missing?
If the more casual guild want to organise an MC run - will there be the possibility of a member in the raiding guild being invited to join them - both for support and even for say a piece of gear that would be still missing?
"Do unto others what you have them do to you" - Jesus
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Galador
- Posts: 259
- Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2005 1:07 pm
- Location: Malta
This is possible but in no way should the casuals expect or force a raiding member to help them out even if said member has no other raiding duties. Casual raids will be completely oragnised and handled by the casual members themselves but they can invite others of course to help.Eolas wrote:A huge thumbs up for QD and all the unnamed others invlolved in setting up the aforementioned guidelines. <3 you all and sterling work as usual guys!
If the more casual guild want to organise an MC run - will there be the possibility of a member in the raiding guild being invited to join them - both for support and even for say a piece of gear that would be still missing?
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Arche
- Posts: 223
- Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 8:36 pm
I deeply wonder if inactivity isn't the problem. If our activity were up (which of course won't be forced) I don't think we would've had people would've had people leaving the 'guild'.
I'm still up in thought about the whole 'guild' thing, they leave the guild... but what do they leave? Do they leave us? Isn't it up to us and them if they left our group of friends? I'm sure they'd be happy to sign up for some 20 mans if we asked them, and give us a chance to chatter. What does 'guild' mean for ssx.
I'd have to say however, if people had the chance to choose between ssx-norms and ssx-raiding. People would choose for the raiding.
Seriously wondering where this will lead...
I'm still up in thought about the whole 'guild' thing, they leave the guild... but what do they leave? Do they leave us? Isn't it up to us and them if they left our group of friends? I'm sure they'd be happy to sign up for some 20 mans if we asked them, and give us a chance to chatter. What does 'guild' mean for ssx.
I'd have to say however, if people had the chance to choose between ssx-norms and ssx-raiding. People would choose for the raiding.
Seriously wondering where this will lead...
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Eolas
- Posts: 120
- Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2006 7:43 pm
- Location: Malta
Arche not necessarily m8. For some that may be the case but not for all. There are people who will leave ssx unless raid progress moves forward - an opinion that I personally do not share - but there are others (and most of the posters to this thread have declared themselves so) for whom the SSX norms come first and do not even think of quitting WoW-SSX, but still would like to enjoy the wow endgame.I'd have to say however, if people had the chance to choose between ssx-norms and ssx-raiding. People would choose for the raiding.
"Do unto others what you have them do to you" - Jesus
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Galador
- Posts: 259
- Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2005 1:07 pm
- Location: Malta
I disagree. We have been unable to progress cos we lacked the numbers esp in some classes (priests and rogues lately, occasionally warriors). Lack of focus and serious raid preparation were also factors occasionally. These characteristics emerge from the fact that we were never a raiding guild and were able to raid in the past simply becuase the 40-man raids relied on the 20 core members that pulled the raid's weight. Moreover, gearing up in SSX takes forever since we have a wide variety of players with intermittent gameplay thus slowing raid progression.Arche wrote:I deeply wonder if inactivity isn't the problem. If our activity were up (which of course won't be forced) I don't think we would've had people would've had people leaving the 'guild'.
This will lead to a core group of SSX, which will undobtedly have to be completed by new people (and believe it or not there are many decent players out there that enjoy raiding in a healthy non-epix horny kind of way), that is focused on having fun whilst progressing instead of farming the same instances week in week out as some are pleased to do. In other words, what many of us want is to push ourselves to the limit, test our skills and see what we can achieve instead of sitting pretty and get the usual easy epics.Arche wrote: Seriously wondering where this will lead...
On the otherhand those that dont like to raid so frequently, have too many IRL commitments etc can adopt the casual style and raid occasionally or not at all as they prefer.
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Sateenlaula
- Posts: 57
- Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:26 am
For what it's worth, i would like to say that i love it in ssx.
Everyone i talk to is helpfull and kind when i need help or have a question.
I feel sad to see you all have these discussions. Hope you'll come up with a decision where most people can feel content with.
And i really hope that it will be another decision than disbanding the wow eu guild.
A few days ago a level 60 player spoke to me in game:
"you're in a great guild!"
I didn't knew the guy and he spontaneously said this to me.
I felt proud!
/cuddle to all,
Sateen
Everyone i talk to is helpfull and kind when i need help or have a question.
I feel sad to see you all have these discussions. Hope you'll come up with a decision where most people can feel content with.
And i really hope that it will be another decision than disbanding the wow eu guild.
A few days ago a level 60 player spoke to me in game:
"you're in a great guild!"
I didn't knew the guy and he spontaneously said this to me.
I felt proud!
/cuddle to all,
Sateen
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Linkie
- Posts: 461
- Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2005 12:50 pm
- Location: The Netherlands, Haarlem
i am having that also from time to time and i feel really proud to be a part of SSX and i also see this as a reason that we are doing better then we all think ...Sateenlaula wrote: A few days ago a level 60 player spoke to me in game:
"you're in a great guild!"
I didn't knew the guy and he spontaneously said this to me.
I felt proud!
/cuddle to all,
Sateen
WoW:
NE Rogue LvL 60 Called Linkie
GW:
Eli/Mon LvL 8 Called Sakura The Small
NE Rogue LvL 60 Called Linkie
GW:
Eli/Mon LvL 8 Called Sakura The Small
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Inquisitor
- Posts: 3411
- Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 12:46 am
- Location: SSX
Why can't we invite those people in, and keep the guild as a whole entity? Is there some cap on the number of players i nthe guild that we have reached?and believe it or not there are many decent players out there that enjoy raiding in a healthy non-epix horny kind of way
If all that is really required is to relax the attitude regarding recruiting raiding focused players (which has at times seemed a BIT over the top by the way), are two guilds REALLY necessary?
No signature
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Galador
- Posts: 259
- Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2005 1:07 pm
- Location: Malta
We can and most probably we will but as you may or may not know recruitment is a lengthy process that involves a lot of time and energy from the ppl handling it. So it will take time.Inquisitor wrote:Why can't we invite those people in, and keep the guild as a whole entity? Is there some cap on the number of players i nthe guild that we have reached?
The split is probably necessary for a simple reason. In the past and most arguably even lately we have had casuals abuse of the hardcore members' iniatitive, skill and organisation such that the same 20-25 people were putting effort in raids and some were just "leeching" the fruits. I am not saying this was done in an evil premeditated way but often the casuals didnt have time to preapre themselves for raids.Inquisitor wrote: If all that is really required is to relax the attitude regarding recruiting raiding focused players (which has at times seemed a BIT over the top by the way), are two guilds REALLY necessary?
This way, those willing to form part of the hardcore group will have to invest time, energy and skill especially raid preparation wise. Its very unfair to have 5-10 people fully preparaing themselves with consumables and stuff and the rest joining along with a happy go lucky attitude knowing they can depend on others to do the dirty work. Needless to say with a half prepared raid and poor initiative you dont progress much. A like-minded group of people is required.
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Inquisitor
- Posts: 3411
- Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 12:46 am
- Location: SSX
I agree, to an extent, but what I am suggesting is not just let "anyone leech" inside the guild. Raiding takes time and prep. If people can't respect that, they shouldn't go. If they can't understand why they need to respect that, they are the ones at fault. Respect is one of those fundamentals.
My problem with the plitting suggestion is that it leads down a road I am not fully prepared to endorse. The requirements list, for instance, borders on the draconian, I know its brainstorming and rough draft, but it really begins to sound more and more like a generic end game (ANY game btw) guild.Sure you may suceeed in game, but success in game is not the end all be all, and certainly not the end all for this community.
A split must be 1) absolutely necessary and 2) conducted in such a way NOT to develop some elitist, average guild.
You represent me and all the other non WoW EU when you wear our tags. This sort of thing needs to be carefully executed. If it stops looking, smelling and tasting like SSX, it can't be called that anymore.
So lets look at the past candidates that have been turned down. The merest sniff of "epixx!1!" has lead to their denial. Obviously, you can have strong community AND a desire to raid and progress in the same person, as virtually everyone of you at the class leader level demonstrate. Can you get enough of those type of people?
None of this is easy, hence the purpose for this "calling out"
We had a multi hour chat with QD yesterday, it may be fruitful to review that with him. We did it with him, because we've known him for a long time, so we said (and mostly BD) alot of abrupt things to him.
Some significant decisions in the future.
My problem with the plitting suggestion is that it leads down a road I am not fully prepared to endorse. The requirements list, for instance, borders on the draconian, I know its brainstorming and rough draft, but it really begins to sound more and more like a generic end game (ANY game btw) guild.Sure you may suceeed in game, but success in game is not the end all be all, and certainly not the end all for this community.
A split must be 1) absolutely necessary and 2) conducted in such a way NOT to develop some elitist, average guild.
You represent me and all the other non WoW EU when you wear our tags. This sort of thing needs to be carefully executed. If it stops looking, smelling and tasting like SSX, it can't be called that anymore.
So lets look at the past candidates that have been turned down. The merest sniff of "epixx!1!" has lead to their denial. Obviously, you can have strong community AND a desire to raid and progress in the same person, as virtually everyone of you at the class leader level demonstrate. Can you get enough of those type of people?
None of this is easy, hence the purpose for this "calling out"
We had a multi hour chat with QD yesterday, it may be fruitful to review that with him. We did it with him, because we've known him for a long time, so we said (and mostly BD) alot of abrupt things to him.
Some significant decisions in the future.
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Sondemon
- Posts: 403
- Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 2:20 am
- Location: Stockholm, Sweden
The whole "ppl leeching" thing, this has come up in diffrent forms for diffrent ppl, I've dealt with a few. And what I always keep saying to ppl is that you joined SSX for the community, and the raids we do is just a bonus and thus to do so you should prepare yourself, if you just want easy epics, others to pull the weight for you then you are, imo, in the wrong place.
I don't want to split the guild, and for me that's the 2nd to last option, gdisband is the final option. I want to deal with the "slackers" first, make our raids more smooth and quicker.
I don't want to split the guild, and for me that's the 2nd to last option, gdisband is the final option. I want to deal with the "slackers" first, make our raids more smooth and quicker.
There is a cow level, and it's called MULGORE!
"I can still hear the laughter echo, and the taste of blood in my mouth.."
"I can still hear the laughter echo, and the taste of blood in my mouth.."
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M.Steiner
- Posts: 6114
- Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 5:57 pm
- Location: UK
(I felt it was appropriate for me to post my thoughts now)
Well, where do i start..Few things i wanted to make comments on..
For the past year or so we've always said ohh we're not a raiding guild, we only raid because we're able to and people enjoy it, we have on our joining page it saying that raiding should be a bonus to being part of our community and not a requirement etc. Yet its been discussed to split the group in half and become what we've always said we weren't. This whole idea was brought to a meeting in which everyone present was heavily involved with raids either currently or not so long ago, half the people there only have their "position" because of raids, little biased imo. It was pretty obvious what the outcome of any meeting votes were going to be even if it was going to a guild/community vote/discussion eventually. Didn't think i'd see big things like this discussed in that kind of way, but meh..
We say we don't have ranks yet splitting an entire group in to two guilds one "hardcore" and the other "casual" is just as bad.. If/when i return to the game i don't particularly want any part in this, i've never really been heavily in to raids, i've gone from raiding every single night to once a week, whenever i feel like it etc.. Depending on what i felt like. I wouldn't want to or be able to be part of the "hardcore" group with all these possible expectations. I also wouldn't wanna be labeled and left in a group being classed as casual, so i would probably end up being guildless.
I also understand it that new moderators were going to be elected for this casual guild. I've always said i didn't agree with doing things just for the sake of doing them. The people that you have now that are mod material are already moderators, if any other people were suitable and capable of being a good mod why aren't they already? So basically this casual group is gonna be moderated by people that wouldn't normally even be a mod. oO
If you put all that raiding criteria on a webpage, you wouldn't even know it was the SSX, because it wouldn't be imo. If the plan to split the group in to two groups of casual and hardcore goes ahead, it will totally contradict the majority of stuff on our WoW site. Heres a few quotes as examples,
"We dont have ranks, numbers or positions to identify ourselves with"
"please understand that we are not a hardcore raiding guild,"
"Everyone is able to join our group as long as they are able to behave themselves in a mature manner."
"our WoW groups raid because they can and because they enjoy it"
"the oppertunity to raid should be a bonus and not a requirement."
Do you want me to rewrite the entire page/s on the site to make it fit in with what might happen with the group to make it seem right? So when someone happens to visit the site and reads it, it doesn't just sound like meaningless trash to them? - Am i the only one getting a slight deja vu here?
If i'm honest i would rather see the group disband than let this happen. If it does happen, then i'm going to have some serious questions to ask myself as well.
Well, where do i start..Few things i wanted to make comments on..
For the past year or so we've always said ohh we're not a raiding guild, we only raid because we're able to and people enjoy it, we have on our joining page it saying that raiding should be a bonus to being part of our community and not a requirement etc. Yet its been discussed to split the group in half and become what we've always said we weren't. This whole idea was brought to a meeting in which everyone present was heavily involved with raids either currently or not so long ago, half the people there only have their "position" because of raids, little biased imo. It was pretty obvious what the outcome of any meeting votes were going to be even if it was going to a guild/community vote/discussion eventually. Didn't think i'd see big things like this discussed in that kind of way, but meh..
We say we don't have ranks yet splitting an entire group in to two guilds one "hardcore" and the other "casual" is just as bad.. If/when i return to the game i don't particularly want any part in this, i've never really been heavily in to raids, i've gone from raiding every single night to once a week, whenever i feel like it etc.. Depending on what i felt like. I wouldn't want to or be able to be part of the "hardcore" group with all these possible expectations. I also wouldn't wanna be labeled and left in a group being classed as casual, so i would probably end up being guildless.
I also understand it that new moderators were going to be elected for this casual guild. I've always said i didn't agree with doing things just for the sake of doing them. The people that you have now that are mod material are already moderators, if any other people were suitable and capable of being a good mod why aren't they already? So basically this casual group is gonna be moderated by people that wouldn't normally even be a mod. oO
If you put all that raiding criteria on a webpage, you wouldn't even know it was the SSX, because it wouldn't be imo. If the plan to split the group in to two groups of casual and hardcore goes ahead, it will totally contradict the majority of stuff on our WoW site. Heres a few quotes as examples,
"We dont have ranks, numbers or positions to identify ourselves with"
"please understand that we are not a hardcore raiding guild,"
"Everyone is able to join our group as long as they are able to behave themselves in a mature manner."
"our WoW groups raid because they can and because they enjoy it"
"the oppertunity to raid should be a bonus and not a requirement."
Do you want me to rewrite the entire page/s on the site to make it fit in with what might happen with the group to make it seem right? So when someone happens to visit the site and reads it, it doesn't just sound like meaningless trash to them? - Am i the only one getting a slight deja vu here?
If i'm honest i would rather see the group disband than let this happen. If it does happen, then i'm going to have some serious questions to ask myself as well.
"My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
The lone and level sands stretch far away.
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
The lone and level sands stretch far away.
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Ruhn
- Posts: 267
- Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 3:40 pm
- Location: Netherlands
Srry but I Dislike the split, altough, in theory, the guild stays together it will feel like it will be seperated. There will prolly form groups and I think some people will feel themselves better then the ''casuals''. One of the probs we had was that lower lvl people didnt receive any attention, this will only become worse. Why would it be neccesary to create a ''new'' guild besides the one we have already, maby it is better to just create an extra channel for people who would like to do the rest we havent ventured already.
and give the casuals and hardcore people diff ranks, 1 rank=(insertname) 2rank=(insertname) so its clear who wants to do what. The rank will be gained the same why as QD said in his post. If it would be something like this, we can stay as a union, together under the same banner.
(made alot of typos 'n stuff forgive me :P
and give the casuals and hardcore people diff ranks, 1 rank=(insertname) 2rank=(insertname) so its clear who wants to do what. The rank will be gained the same why as QD said in his post. If it would be something like this, we can stay as a union, together under the same banner.
(made alot of typos 'n stuff forgive me :P
Chuck Norris beat Halo 2 on Legendary using only the strafe buttons and flashlight -.-
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Lightforge
- Posts: 105
- Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2005 12:19 pm
- Location: In your house
Doesn't it all narrow down to that some people wants to play the game in the sense that they want to see everything the game has to offer WITH THEIR FRIENDS.. And where the rest just want to play the game WITH THEIR FRIENDS not really caring if they get to see everything the game has to offer..?
If either of these two types think of the other as a lesser individual they should ask themselves, do I belong here?
If either of these two types think of the other as a lesser individual they should ask themselves, do I belong here?
No.. I didn't know about the set when I made the character! :|
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Janell
- Posts: 61
- Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2006 3:53 am
There seems to be some misunderstandings about "the split". It was only a plan so far, not a certainty. As for me I think we should just stay like we are, (I know, i supported Sam's idea at first. But seeing as I stopped raiding, it nolonger affects me) since after all it's the community what makes this guild SSX, not the raids.
Mark
I'm one of those, if anyone feels I should step back from my position, then I will do so.half the people there only have their "position" because of raids, little biased imo
Mark
Janelliebellie! - http://ctprofiles.net/2508182