A Question that plagues my mind everytime I play the game...

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Do You Think Non-Registered Forum Users/SSX Members Be Kicked Out Of The In-Game Guild List?

Yes
2
33%
No
4
67%
 
Total votes: 6

A Question that plagues my mind everytime I play the game...

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 4:44 am

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LIGHTNING
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Simple question. Politics are involved...

Here's another way to look at it: Quantity? Or Quality?
I always believed that the core of what made SSC great in the past, is here in the present and future of the SSX.
- LIGHTNING (September 22, 2005)

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 7:17 am

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Svarog
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If they are active like blue_archer dont kick them, if they are not active like blue then either you register or go, and Im sure blue will come around (ill make her register! :lol: ) so thats my 2cents :weird:
Frag the Weak, Hurdle the Dead!

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 7:34 am

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Smavin
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yea i agree with perun or svarog
if there active in guild but not in forum dont kick
and vise versa
but if there not active in both kickem
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Hi To My Freinds--Juna,Carlos.Jr,Anaida

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 7:35 am

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polosatik
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Svarog wrote:If they are active like blue_archer dont kick them, if they are not active like blue then either you register or go, and Im sure blue will come around (ill make her register! :lol: ) so thats my 2cents :weird:
:thumb:
Anaida (112, troj)/ Juna (113, arch)

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 8:28 am

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Stracius
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It's a tough call, really. I'm seeing it in two different ways. The first being that we really don't want to force a person to do something that they don't wish to do. Even if that includes active forum participation, though I'm vexed at the thought. On the other hand, I can't help but to wonder if they really know what the SSX is if they never participate. Ergo why did they join if not to be part of a great community of gamers? There are plenty of other guilds out there that don't have our community.

I suppose one way of looking at it is like a restaurant (sorry, I'm a culinary type person :p ). Why walk into the best/fanciest place in town just to ask for a hamburger, when there's a plethora of great items on the menu? I'd be inclined to kick them out so they could go eat at McDonalds, but then I'm like that.

Maybe they just don't really know about us yet?

BTW, if you didn't pick it up from my restaurant comparison; I'm a quality over quantity type of person. Every time.

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 12:47 pm

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Svarog
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And the purpose of mentioning restaurants is to make us hungry :weird: :eek: :D :rolleyes:

Yeah blue_archer (as an example) will register sooner or later, she is a great asset to our guild (everyone is) but she has done alot for our guild, including making me aware of SSX :sweat:
Frag the Weak, Hurdle the Dead!

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 1:27 pm

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LIGHTNING
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Blue is associated through her brother, so she's almost half in. I havent cast my vote, and i may never will on this poll.

Hopeless is registered, but isnt active. I believe they check the site once in a while to get updated on current SSX events.

Seriously, I like Stracius' point though. Why try to join the SSX if your only trying to join a GW guild, when there is so much more we can offer.

For those that voted against kicking these people, you all have mentioned that if they're active don't kick them out.

Honestly though, many are active, but don't take the time to participate in our forums.
I always believed that the core of what made SSC great in the past, is here in the present and future of the SSX.
- LIGHTNING (September 22, 2005)

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 6:32 pm

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Kon
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We were discussing this in the US WoW meeting last week. We decided it would be ideal if people posted on the forums at least every once in awhile, as long as they were active ingame. Also, we decided that if people were very active out of game, but not ingame, that was OK too.
"We are the facilitators of our own creative evolution."

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 6:43 pm

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M.Steiner
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If they're very active ingame give them time and they will hopefully register in their own time, encourage them. If they show no signs of even wanting to come and register to be part of the community "then" decide whether you should show them the door.

The SSX community is right here on the forums.

You gotta ask yourself. If someone shows no interest what so ever in coming here to register, saying hello and generally being part of the community then should they even be here? Whats the point in them being here if they don't want to be part of the community, thats what we're all about.
Like Stracius has already said:
I can't help but to wonder if they really know what the SSX is if they never participate. Ergo why did they join if not to be part of a great community of gamers? There are plenty of other guilds out there that don't have our community.
"My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
The lone and level sands stretch far away.

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 10:17 pm

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polosatik
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maybe they just wanna have their friends close to them ingame? :shake:
its great to have a lot of friends (which this community offers) but take for example people who put different values into friendship and they like to have not many but few very good friends close to them? then wat.. exclude them?..i might be totally wrong.. and delusional but in my own point of view forums and in-game guilds are somewat different entities.. what if person from different guild would like to get to know people on these forums?.. should he/she be denied of such right? .. :blank:

P.S. *runns down to read over rules n' regulations again" :nervous:
Anaida (112, troj)/ Juna (113, arch)

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 10:38 pm

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LIGHTNING
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It is a common practice for people in-game to go "Guild jumping." Joining different guilds to see what the guild is like, I am open to this. I usually let random people in the guild join the in-game guild to see and feel what our community feels like. An announcement in the in-game guild anouncement board is there to urge them to visit the website, and register, and come to the forums.

I usually give them a week, but I have neglected to boot people out, because my conscience feels guilty if the descision seems personal, and everyone, or the majority in the guild may not be the same as mine.

So, here's a proposal:

How about we let them be "in the guild" for a certain amount of time, maybe a week, or 2, depending on their activity, with the right instructions given to register in the forums, and then, perhaps boot them out after they have failed to register in the forum after a certain time period?

Will that be a good compromise?
I always believed that the core of what made SSC great in the past, is here in the present and future of the SSX.
- LIGHTNING (September 22, 2005)

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 10:49 pm

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Kon
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Anyone from anywhere can come visit here. In this case it would appear the ingame clan is far larger than the active posters, so the "different values" thing is no issue, as they would likley like it better on the forums.

Theres nothing to shake your head about. If you don't want to come to the forums, you don't have to anyway. We aren't kicking people for inactivity, ingame or out.

EDIT:
LIGHTNING wrote:It is a common practice for people in-game to go "Guild jumping." Joining different guilds to see what the guild is like, I am open to this. I usually let random people in the guild join the in-game guild to see and feel what our community feels like. An announcement in the in-game guild anouncement board is there to urge them to visit the website, and register, and come to the forums.

I usually give them a week, but I have neglected to boot people out, because my conscience feels guilty if the descision seems personal, and everyone, or the majority in the guild may not be the same as mine.

So, here's a proposal:

How about we let them be "in the guild" for a certain amount of time, maybe a week, or 2, depending on their activity, with the right instructions given to register in the forums, and then, perhaps boot them out after they have failed to register in the forum after a certain time period?

Will that be a good compromise?
Didn't see that as I was AFK in the reply window.
Short answer: No.
Long answer: Do NOT let strangers into the guild if they have not gone through the vouvhing process, or at the very least looked at. Besides, we do not allow guild jumpers into SSX because we know they are just going to leave again right away, possibly with something of importance Also, we do not allow multi-clanning. This has been a long standing rule for the same reasons as guild jumpers.
Last edited by Kon on Thu Apr 20, 2006 11:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"We are the facilitators of our own creative evolution."

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 11:01 pm

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M.Steiner
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polosatik wrote:maybe they just wanna have their friends close to them ingame? :shake:
its great to have a lot of friends (which this community offers) but take for example people who put different values into friendship and they like to have not many but few very good friends close to them? then wat.. exclude them?..i might be totally wrong.. and delusional but in my own point of view forums and in-game guilds are somewat different entities.. what if person from different guild would like to get to know people on these forums?.. should he/she be denied of such right? .. :blank:

P.S. *runns down to read over rules n' regulations again" :nervous:

My point being that the SSX is a community. Thats what we are, its what we're about, its why we differ from most other guilds, because we're not just a guild ingame, we're an entire community.
I'm not saying to outright force people to come here, but ease them in to it, encourage them, make them feel at home here. I'm not saying they have to make hundreds of posts either or play other games with the SSX, just to register and say hello is a start. If after a while they still haven't bothered to come here and show no interest at all in doing so then they shouldn't be here.
The way i'm thinking is. We're a community, to be part of the community they actually have to make the effort to come here, at least to register. If they don't want to be part of the community that we are, then why did they join? Whats the point in them staying?
They can still play with the select friends they have ingame if thats all they're interested in, they don't need to be part of the guild to do that.
its great to have a lot of friends (which this community offers) but take for example people who put different values into friendship and they like to have not many but few very good friends close to them? then wat.. exclude them?
By not coming here they aren't even on our official members list, they are excluding themselves.
what if person from different guild would like to get to know people on these forums?.. should he/she be denied of such right? ..
We have lots of people that visit the forums & post that are friends of us that aren't part of the SSX, they are more than welcome. :)

[Made few edits :p]
"My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
The lone and level sands stretch far away.

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 11:51 pm

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Stracius
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LIGHTNING wrote:It is a common practice for people in-game to go "Guild jumping."...I usually give them a week, but I have neglected to boot people out, because my conscience feels guilty if the descision seems personal, and everyone, or the majority in the guild may not be the same as mine.
I'd like to think that the vouching system before inviting them to the guild negates this situation. People can group with guild members and get the feel of the guild, without actually being in it. Then if the guild members feel that they're an appropriate applicant, they can vouch for them.

My take on it would be to warn everyone and give explanations, then kick everyone that isn't vouched for.

PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 3:09 am

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Quality.

PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 4:35 am

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polosatik
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i not sure whos missing the point here..but again..there are not only one and only one reason why people join the guild.. i am sure this community is awsm..but people sometimes dont even know about it existens and frankly not all care.. all they want to do is to join guild and be with friends they care about most (or many othere reasons )...
i need to confess.. i am one of such.. i joined SSX guild to be close to my closest friends in that sever (and right now in game)..i could careless about the community that it represents (though it might sound "in denial" or wrong, its true)..and again i dont mean to offend anyone.. i am sure its one of the best online communities around..but nontheless ALL i wanted when i join guild is to be close to my friends.. it didnt faze me that guild was very small. not able participate in GW and so on..wat made it appealing is people i cared about...
well..i didnt go to this forums for while.. agian as i said i could careless.. i mean its good..community..lot of people.. blah blah but nontheless as u see i came around ( first i did it for certain people, then stayed with the program because its interesting and i do enjoy participating here.) however.. it took a while.. i mean long while for that to happen.... so.. what makes you think that if we give people chance to join the guild (at least for trial amout of time . which Lightning suggested, and which i totally support) they will never try forums out and understand that u can have much fun in here?...
and again..Khan said everyone is welcomed (no matter wat guild they belong) and seemingly its not mandatory thing to do (i mean in general online thing)..why others place a big reference on going through vouching thing befor joining the guild>???..its sounds as if "we welcome everybody here, but in the in-game guild.. we should'nt.." ... that does brings out somewat point of discrimination (not in the usual its content)..because why should we discriminate against people who want to join our guild just because they got variety of other reasons to join guild besides wanting to be part of a bigger online community (which it sound like they can join it already without being in the guild)..
and i agree... some people will never care (which not nessessary makes them bad).
anyhow..i hope i gave enough reasons why i am -pro- letting people join guild for trial period of time befor whole vouch/ being part of bigger community thing..

P.S. i didnt mean to make an attack on anybody's ideas..and if sounded such i really appologize
Anaida (112, troj)/ Juna (113, arch)

PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 5:46 am

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Stracius
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I'll try to address a few things you posted about, Pol.

In a way, the vouching system /is/ discrimination. One that I wholeheartedly support. Who are we discriminating against? People that couldn't care less about others. Griefers, in a main part. Hopelessly immature and ignorant people for another.

We do have standards. While we would welcome all, we do ask that people behave themselves accordingly. The people I just mentioned are unable to do so, so we don't let them in. If they feel like being a better gamer, then we'd welcome them. Until then, there's no reason for them to cause us trouble. Trust us, we've had /plenty/ of experience with letting bad gamers in along with everyone else. It takes the fun out of our existence, and what's the point of gaming if you can't have fun?

I support the vouching system because it's simple and easy. Why complicate things by trying to remember who was vouched for and who wasn't? Not to mention the risk of hurting feelings by kicking people from the guild who you're unsure of, but don't seem to have passed the trial. Or end up not kicking them at all because of guilt, even though they don't belong.

Play together, like each other, vouch, become a member. Simple.

The example you give of yourself on the forums is all we can ask for. Just look us up from time to time and check out the forums. Some people will find they like the community here and stay. Others will move on.

Let me ask you something. Why did you visit the forums, and why are you more active now? Did you suddenly decide to see if the SSX had a website or forums? Or were you nudged here by other SSX members (Lightning or someone else)? People are always going to join for their own reasons. I did, and so did you. All we'd like to do is let them be aware that there's more to us than just the one game. Nudge them to the forums and let them find out for themselves. If they like us they'll possibly be more active on them. If not, they'll move on. Simplicity.

Hopefully I managed to somewhat address your concerns, as they're quite valid. If you're still not sure, inquire further. I'm positive other members here will be a bit more helpful than me with anything you have questions about.

As for how you decide to handle vouching/trial periods/etc... well, that's ultimately up to you and the rest of the players in the game. As long as nothing gets completely out of hand, anyway. If you can handle, and prefer, inviting with trial periods then do so. My two cents is just that. Two cents, not commandments (not that they could be :p ). Same for everyone else. Do what you feel is best, and do what you think is right. If you're not sure about something and wish to seek advice/input, that's what we in the community are here for. You :)

BTW, I didn't vote on this one. I think it's something for you to decide.

PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 7:46 am

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LIGHTNING
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I think we should also address another game feature here... The Friends List.

They don't necessarily need to join the in-game roster to be with friends, but they certainly can be added to the Friends List.

I'm starting to lean more towards the Kickin everyone except the ones I know that have been vouched for.

People can stay in touch via the Friends List, and then members in the guild can invite other friends after confirming that they are good people.

I am new at this, and I ask the other Group MODs, Admins, and maybe perhaps the Arbiter for guidance on this. I feel guilty acting on my own will. I feel that I should kick everyone in the in-game roster, and recruit the way we did it in the Freespace days. Either wait for the player to ask to join, and we refer them to the website, or We invite them after we played with them a while.

Guidance, opinion, and thoughts please.
I always believed that the core of what made SSC great in the past, is here in the present and future of the SSX.
- LIGHTNING (September 22, 2005)

PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 8:37 am

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polosatik
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Stracius ;D lots to read, lots to learn, lots agree on, ...but message was the most comforting, thank you :) ... (yes, i did consider these forums because of Lightning)

and Linghting.. friend list might be good..but not nessessarily comforting feature if u want to stay close to the persons you care for. beside with as much active recruiting from other guild's side going on right now (and been for a while) many people find great guilds that dont want to move from once they find. (i guess this is one of my concerns also)..and to ask them move from guild they found and enjoy is not fair.
Anaida (112, troj)/ Juna (113, arch)

PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 9:49 am

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polosatik wrote:i am sure this community is awsm..but people sometimes dont even know about it existens and frankly not all care.. all they want to do is to join guild and be with friends they care about most (or many othere reasons )...
This is the first thing a person should know when they request to join us, they should know it well before they are invited.
I don't mean to sound harsh but there is no point in recruiting a person in to the SSX community just because they wanna be closer to some of the friends they have here. If that person has no interest in the community, doesn't want to be part of it, and couldn't care less about it then this probably isn't the place for them.

Let me give an example;
We have friends all over the server in WoW, either amongst other guilds or guildless. We're one of the biggest guilds on the server we play on and we're amongst some of the top raiding guilds for our PvE achievements. The amount of people that want to join us just because they have a friend here or even family member, because they just want to raid with us or just because they wanna be part of one of the biggest guilds is really rather huge.
If we went around recruiting people just because they wanted to to play with a few of their friends that were already a member of the SSX to be closer to them our guild would be the size of half the damn server. We have our friendslists to play and chat with all those people. Just because they have friends here doesn't mean they are right for us and we certanly should go right ahead and recruit them just because of it.

My advice for recruitment would be,
Have a long chat with the person that wants to join and make sure they know all about us well before you let them join, make sure they understand what we're all about and that we are an entire community and not just any ol' guild. Rather than forwarding them to our "About SSX" page explain it to them in your own words. Make sure this is the kind of place they are actually looking for, maybe ask them what kind of guild they are looking for before you tell them about us.
Go on to a slightly personal level and see where they're from, how old they are, what interests they have.. Last of all see if they then have any questions they'd like to ask about the SSX.
You know its actually a real pleasure when you speak with someone who explains to you what kind of place they're looking for even before you've had a chance to tell them yourself, and the people that are really interested and start asking about our history, how we formed, how long we've been around etc. The peeps that really do show a genuine interest.

Arrange a time or place for you and some of your other guild members to team up with the person that is wanting to join, there's no need to invite them in to the guild to do this. As an example in both WoW and NC in the past we have invited recruits along to some of our dungeon raids, outpost wars or even just a little bit of mob hunting to play with the person before hand. It gives them the oppertunity to play along side us before we go ahead and join them and it gives us some first hand experience at playing with them and helps us get to know them a little better.

Sometimes people that ask to join you are really just trying to get in to any guild. Some have applied to join many other guilds and will join whichever they get accepted in to first. Don't invite them straight away, keep playing with them for this reason. Recruitment shouldn't be rushed, take your time, it doesn't matter if you don't actually invite this person for days maybe even a week or so after they originally asked to join. If the person really does want to be part of a place like this then they won't mind waiting, trust me.

Invite them to the forums to introduce themselves & say hello, again before you join them. Maybe make registering on the forums a requirement of joining like i suggested in another thread, the WoW:EU group has proved it works wonders, but thats your choice if you wanna do that too of course. ;)

Ask yourself a couple of questions before you hit the invite button, hopefully you'll be able to answer some of these after you've talked and played with them before.
Do you think this person is just after a guild no matter what type?
Do you believe this person is wanting to join us for the right reasons, to be part of a gaming community and not just to play with friends they have in the CO guild ingame or just because you might be a successfull guild in the game?
Do you see this person sticking around the forums or in other SSX games after they have stopped playing CO? Or do you think this person will disappear in to thin air never to be seen again?

Again, non of my post is anything personal. Just trying to give some of my thoughts and experiences.
Hope you found some of the recruitment advice helpful. Sorry for the rather long post hehe. :)
"My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
The lone and level sands stretch far away.

PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 10:29 am

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I have been the recruiter in the EU WoW group for a while now. Ive come across this problem before (people wanting to be with their friends but not wanting to be part of the whole community), What we found was they turned out not to be long term members, as in if their friend became inactive they didnt feel part of the group:<. So now when we do recruit we make sure they're registered on the forums and are keen to join the community :P.
As for people joining to be with their friends :P, thats fine with me, when they approach me i let me them know if they want to be apart of this group they have to get to know the rest of us. (via forums w/e) :). Ive found that to be a nice way to do things :P. We in WoW have a big community so its hard to deal with the ''can my friend join?'' but if they really want to be part of this community they soon show it :). Another thing we implemented was the ''only friends of the guild/family'' can join. This encourages the friends of just 1 person to mingle with the rest of us too. It also stops the random people who just want a guld for a month joining us -.-.
Also if you ever want advice on actually going about recruiting im always around somewhere to help :)

PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 10:58 am

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polosatik
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SSX-Ava wrote:I have been the recruiter in the EU WoW group for a while now. Ive come across this problem before (people wanting to be with their friends but not wanting to be part of the whole community), What we found was they turned out not to be long term members, as in if their friend became inactive they didnt feel part of the group:<. So now when we do recruit we make sure they're registered on the forums and are keen to join the community :P.
As for people joining to be with their friends :P, thats fine with me, when they approach me i let me them know if they want to be apart of this group they have to get to know the rest of us. (via forums w/e) :). Ive found that to be a nice way to do things :P. We in WoW have a big community so its hard to deal with the ''can my friend join?'' but if they really want to be part of this community they soon show it :). Another thing we implemented was the ''only friends of the guild/family'' can join. This encourages the friends of just 1 person to mingle with the rest of us too. It also stops the random people who just want a guld for a month joining us -.-.
Also if you ever want advice on actually going about recruiting im always around somewhere to help :)
no offence to others but this post is by far is the most reasonable one, thank you Ava

SSX-MS.... what works for some people not nessesary work for another, and in my personal case..just because i didnt care about joining community didnt make me any less of a person? (just the way u sounded..sry)...and just because person didnt care in the beginning doesnt mean he/she will not reconsider in the future.
Anaida (112, troj)/ Juna (113, arch)

PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 11:51 am

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polosatik wrote: no offence to others but this post is by far is the most reasonable one, thank you Ava

SSX-MS.... what works for some people not nessesary work for another, and in my personal case..just because i didnt care about joining community didnt make me any less of a person? (just the way u sounded..sry)...and just because person didnt care in the beginning doesnt mean he/she will not reconsider in the future.
I dont think he meant you to take that in any or shape or form:P.
The problem with ''reconsidering in the future'' is that it could go two ways :P.
Its far more easier to recruit someone who is looking for a group like ours from the start, rather then waiting a few months and deciding it isnt for him/her. It saves alot of hassle in the long run:P and if people are leaving because this group isnt what they were looking for when they were recruited it doesnt help the groups morale very much :)

PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 4:03 pm

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LIGHTNING
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Just an example of how close and good the community is, the members who are not part of the SSX Conquer Online Group, are all taking the time to visit us in the CO Forum, and try to help everyone feel welcome, and to try help me (and others) know more about the SSX, and get to better know everyone. We're like a family here, even if I've only known these guys through the Forums.
I always believed that the core of what made SSC great in the past, is here in the present and future of the SSX.
- LIGHTNING (September 22, 2005)

PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 4:58 pm

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Kon
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MS's post needs a sticky in General, it's really great advice for any group. :)

Polo, why are you arguing so hard against the community? The community is SSX! If all we cared about were the games, we would have stayed with the SSC! SSX was mostly FS2 and NC people. I had played FS2, but I often didn't see many SSC ingame. I stuck around. The game's multiplayer servers died a few months before SSX even started, yet I stuck around. SSC split, and a lot of people I hardly knew, most of which I had never played with ingame formed SSX. I went with them. Why? Not because of the game, but because of the community. The other guys who left were in my opinion the nicest, most fun people from the SSC, so I left the SSC and the game behind, and joined the community.
LIGHTNING wrote:We're like a family here, even if I've only known these guys through the Forums.
If you don't care about that, then maybe you shouldn't be here. :shake:

Do not let guild jumpers into the guild. Quality over quantity. I once said in a WoW topic that you should only let in people worthy of your friends list. However, you cannot let in all your friends. Some people you are friends with just might not be SSX material, even though you are. Believe me, my real life friends would never make it in. :lol:

Also, there is no point in letting a person into the ingame guild and letting them decide whether or not they want to be a part of the community. Before they even get vouched for they should at least register on the forums and post a "Hello" post.

Going back to MS's post, playing with recruits is very important. These people by no means have to be in the guild while you are playing with them. Again, the friends list is there. Like MS said, it could be a week or two (or possibly more) before the person is ready to be vouched for. You need to know who the person is. Know he is mature enough, that he is not selfish and will take all the loot for himself, that he is willing to help others, including helping lowbies progress in the game. If you are certain the recruit meets all of these, vouch for him.

I'm not going to vote on the poll as it's your group, but I strongly agree with "Yes."
"We are the facilitators of our own creative evolution."

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