Arena!!

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Arena!!

PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 1:50 pm

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Bladesinger
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Hey folks, with the inauguration of Arena Season 2 a bunch of us are getting excited about the gear opportunities available and have formed up a few teams. Last night we had some confusion and hurt feelings about who was on what roster and why some of members switched rosters. Here are the rosters as I know them with the known toons on each.


Apocalypsenow; 5v5
Ragingdeath
Auravil
Pocky
Zepol
Ulrikk
Soulbiter
Averegor
Jonisrahl

Garbage Knight; 5v5
Aoiren
Lilleth
Jaysen
Owin
Velorraena
Idaten
Staylon

Most of the confusion that occurred last night I think was a result of irregular schedules, the desire to do some Arena bouts on Tuesday night and/or have a more regular team of players who are usually on about the same time as each other. We tried last night to figure out some means of avoiding further hurt feelings and also maximizing everyone's opportunity to get down Gladiator style.

Option 1- Keep the teams as they are and work on scheduling regular times for team bouts.
Looking at the rosters both teams look well balanced and as far as SSX PVP goes, have a high potential for success. Right now it looks like getting everyone together and hashing out regular bouts is the best option. Even if each team has to run 10-15 consecutive bouts to get everyone on the roster their minimum of 30% participation that's at most two hours a week if things go really long.


The upside
to this is each team learns how to play well as a unit and improves their chance of success/wins with time. Regular bout schedules also help keep things steady and predictable. Knowing approximately how many bouts your team will be playing each week, and when, allows greater flexibility within the roster and the opportunity for more players to be on the roster. ie, Garbage Knight is scheduled to have 10 bouts every Mon, Wed, and Thurs for a total of 30 bouts/week. We know that each player on the roster only has to participate in 10 bouts/week so we can schedule players based on their availability. For example it could be A B C D E one day, A B D F H another, and C E F G H on the last day.

The downside
is if a player can't make it for their 30% of that week's bouts they lose out on any Rating and points earned that week. Also, if some members have to be gone for a week and there aren't 5 on at any given time the whole team is out points that week.

Option 2- Rotating rosters.
Because teams accrue points weekly rather than daily and players don't lose points if they leave one team and join another after their weekly points have been awarded we can have rotating rosters. If people are hopping to go fight but their usual teammates aren't online it's possible to change out all but the charter member for that week. This would in effect be a weekly rotation since each player must be on that roster for the full week to accrue points.

The upside is players can take advantage of flexible rosters and possibly get more arena time.

The downside
to this is there may be only one team's worth of players on any given night and it would be possible for the roster to be filled for that week before the week's end, leaving some players out of a chance to get Rating that week.
Shattered Star since 1998

Gallarien of Lorien, Hunter/Woodsman

PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 2:23 pm

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Bladesinger
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Since we're all in this for gear as much as for fun I thought I'd include some of the stuff Bill and I worked on last night in a moment of geeky bliss. Since I'm not quite sure how exactly to link an Excel graph from my machine to the forums I've copied the formulae we used to work up the points per rating curve.

For rating less than 1500, where X is the rating
=(0.38*X)-194

For rating greater than 1500, where X is the rating
=1426.79/(1+(918.836*(2.718281828459^(-0.00386405*X))))

At ratings up to 1500 the loss/gain per rating point is linear. Although the formula allows for negative point accrual there's a minimum of 0 points accrued/week, meaning a team will never lose points for a low rating. Above 1500 the curve is logarithmic, meaning the initital arena point per rating point gain is substantial but it tapers off as rating increases. Looking at the graph it appears that the point of diminishing returns is a rating of 1925 where we earn 0.5 points per rating point. The maximum points earned per rating point is 0.55 at a rating of 2225-2325. At a rating higher than 2325 the point earned per rating point begins to diminish to a maximum of 1426 points earned per week at a rating of 3675.

Looking at the curves it appears to me that the most efficient rating to strive for would be 1925. It seems the most attainable for our skill and interest level and provides the most return per rating point as well as effort put into Arena PvP.

Caveat: It's going to take us a while to get going and build momentum. This past week was painful with lag issues and going up against teams with more experience and better gear than us. As long as we can deal with technical issues long enough each week to get credit and understand that we'll get better with time the ZOMGEPIX! will come.
Shattered Star since 1998

Gallarien of Lorien, Hunter/Woodsman

PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 3:43 am

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Padishar
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More people in the guild desiring to PvP is FANTASTIC!!!
Esp for some of us who PvP more then anything else in the game. :thumb:
A couple of us have been trying to get folks interested in the arena for months now. Even made a post on it.
If there is enough interest to finally come to the arena as a guild, I would suggest:

Option 3:
The Arena is ladder based and you are in direct competition with every other arena team in the game. I would suggest forming a full dedicated competition team and a whatever goes competition team.

The Dedicated team understand that we are there to have fun and compete. Members make an effort to be to practices each week and respec their chars for pvp builds and try and collect pvp gear. A competition team needs to play together as much as possible to build cohesion.

The whatever goes team is of members who still wish to got to the arena, but either due to not being able to play as often, respect their chars or simply are only marginally interested in pvp... play together and have fun, but the competition and competiveness of arena is not a priority.

The main reason I am suggesting option three is if we actually have enough people serious about 5v5 now. I prob should have asked that first.
Do we?

Because for months we have not.
Last edited by Padishar on Sat Jun 23, 2007 4:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Arena!!

PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 4:17 am

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Padishar
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Now, covering the hurt feelings part.
This is the way things appear to me:

Apocalypsenow; 3v5
Ragingdeath - PVP'r
Auravil - can't play due to new born.
Pocky - never pvp'd 5v5, and will play sometime in future?
Zepol - Randomly plays (and then usually only for 3v3)
Ulrikk - PvP'r
Soulbiter - PvP'r
Averegor - only 5v5 with us once and is not pvp spec'd, also already has planned practice dates for garbage knight group with a different char so time will most likely be limited.
Jonisrahl - Can't play due to work schedule.

Patch comes out tues with new arena loot and this forms:
Garbage Knight; 5v5
Aoiren
Lilleth
Jaysen
Owin
Velorraena
Idaten
Staylon

With scheduled practices and roster line up.


Main PvP'rs (are there others that pvp more then us?) from apocalypsenow been trying to get the guild to arena with them.... with no luck.
Even then they have still scraped almost 2k in arena points thru 2v2 and 3v3 after months of work, and still can't get the guild to 5v5.
The listed apaco 5v5 group is actually from those that either go once or say they will go sometime in the random future. So it doesn't really happen.
Months go by...

Then when new loot is out and interest is kindled in 5v5, those who have been pvping and asking the guild for support, gets completely left out of practice decisions and team build due to not being there patch night? :sweat:
So yeah, I understand the hurt feeling part. :(

Now plz tell me I am wrong about this ;D

PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 5:42 am

Lilleth
Posts: 143
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 3:33 pm
Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Will...you're wrong about this! ;D (although I can only give my personal perspective...I have no knowledge of any ulterior motives in this matter).

I for one would be in the "Whatever Goes" category :lol:

On a personal note:

I just want you guys to know...I'm not a PvPer. I did join Apocalypsenow...because the invite popped up on my screen when I said "okay, I'll try it once"...but honestly, I didn't know how serious it was for you guys. (And had no idea that Garbage Knights are actually scheduled for practices? There are practices??). I just thought it was for fun, "whenever". I had never, ever looked at the OLD loot for arena (didn't know where to find all that neat PvP loot ppl were talking about), I was seriously ignorant to the fact that there was any "new" loot.

I'm not respeccing for PvP. I'm not spending even a quarter of my time on PvP. I don't really like PvP all that much, no matter how shiny the "new" gear is. I didn't really consider that Garbage Knights was more than just a "fling", so to speak...at least not for me...it was fun to look at the neat druid stuff and say "ooooo" and "I want!", but I never really thought I would PvP enough to actually earn anything (I'm sorry if I lead anyone to believe otherwise). I am planning to remove Lilleth from 5v5 PvP altogether.

I'm sorry for any hurt feelings. :( I hope you guys all know that is the LAST thing I would ever want to happen. I plead ignorance. I simply didn't know you had been campaigning for a serious 5v5 team for so long (obviously, I haven't been paying attention. I'm sorry :( ). I had no idea that Apocalypsenow was that team. I wouldn't have joined in that case...not because I don't like having fun with you guys, but because I'm not into PvP like you are, and wouldn't put the time and effort into it that you would. That wouldn't be fair to those who ARE more interested in serious arena action.


<Lilleth attempts to lighten the tone of her increasingly somber post>

(When I said "What PvP trinket??"...that was a clue...)

;D :thumb: :lol: :D
/purr
******
Lilleth 85 Night Elf Druid-Resto (Mannoroth)
Raevynn 85 Night Elf Hunter (Mannoroth)
Zyllah 85 Night Elf Death Knight-Blood (Mannoroth)

PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 12:07 pm

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Bladesinger
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I think we're all sorry for whatever part we had for upsetting our fellows. I know I am. However, I don't think any of us really knew how serious Apocolypsenow was. All we ever heard was "Anyone want to do Arenas/PvP?" from the people who have been saying that all along. The formation of Garbage Knight was something of an impulse thing and to be honest, I think we all expected that if someone was serious about being on another team he/she would have been mature enough to say so and decline the invitation to the team. A lot of what's happened in the past is just what Steph described, the "Hey, wanna PvP? [Right now if you're not doing anything else]" If we accepted the invitation it may or may not have been with the intention of anything other than giving it a try and/or goofing around with some guildies.

Now that we know, it may change the perspective we all have on things.

Will, the Serious and Not-So-Serious rosters are a great idea and I'm interested in both groups. Averegor's Arms/Fury now and I'd really like to get him PVP gear. If you guys decide that you want a more regularly attending Holy pally and there's room on the roster I'll partipate on Staylon as well. Vel's on the GK roster since she's going to be pretty much a farmer and well, let's face it, ganking happens a lot when farming so I'd like to be practiced and prepared.

If you guys will set up regular skirmish and ratings bouts for Apocalypsenow I'll do my best to be at all of them. If there's room for Averegor and Staylon on the team I'd like to work on both. If not, Averegor's my focus.

The numbers I put up using Garbage Knight as an example were just that, an example. There are no scheduled practices or anything. From what I gathered from the players it's a semi-serious in-guild pick up Arena team. If we're all on and want to go, we'll go. If not, we won't. The only caveat to that is I would ask that we all try to get at least the minimum required bouts per week so we keep getting points.
Shattered Star since 1998

Gallarien of Lorien, Hunter/Woodsman

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