Chill's membership (split post)

[Chill]

Something nice to come and read after not being at my PC all day.

Whether Chill is a nice guy ingame and only meant the post as a joke doesn't mean to say he can spam crap on the forums whenever he feels like it and get away with it forever.
Chill has infact had more posts of his edited, split, moved and deleted more than anyone else on our forums ever has, thats not a good thing in its self.

this post was a private joke between me and dodo

Thats what PMs are for.

When i've edited/moved/split threads before i've said on a few occasions to plz stop with the spam, KJ has also warned him, yet he still goes on to post this stuff knowing full well they are going to get edited or moved. He knows full well its gonna cause trouble so why do it?
I deleted a post of Chills last week or the week before, yes, deleted. Only one post mind you and i actually said over IRC as i was doing it for anyone that was around at the time. It was a thread that simply said something along the lines of "Read this quick before it gets moved!!"...
He also bumped a thread a while ago which was about a year old, "just to piss MS off" were his words iirc. He only meant it as a joke towards me but as i said ingame to him at the time, its not appropriate on the forums.

Can i ask everyone defending Chill one question please.
Where do you draw the line?

yeah, i spoke to ava about that ingame remember? then i spoke to you. and i aplogised to both of you, and ill do it again, i never meant it maliciously in ANY way.

and ill say that to any of the other people here who think im "snarky and unapolgetic" --for that MS i have, and will again, apologise

Private jokes at other people's expense ARE INCLUDED

Again, you dont seem to be reading -- whose expense?

[Chill]

ill make a larger, more informative post soonish, im too busy too atm

[BlackDove]

Ofc your right Anny.

Though the differance is imo, none of his posts were meant offensive, ever. All hes doing is pulling the legs of the mods in charge with the power to silence him, occasionally even in a very funny way & occasionally with VERY bad taste. This aversion against authority is rooted very deep in chill from my understanding & though i know its the mods job... the reaction is just what the posts aim for - to blow it up into a drama for example. *points at this thread*

Can someone please explain to me why I have to tolerate this?

Thats what its all about.

No.

I'm not here to wetnurse kids and their tantrums. I'm not here to scoop up behind people who want to dump whenever they feel like it. I'm here to remove it, warn/report it, and if that doesn't carry frutition - reccomend complete removal of person causing issues.

The fact that you people are defending this is astounding, considering how much it shows what level of decency you deem acceptable.

I for one, do not feel like having someone post "If you read this you like mansex" on ANYTHING that I am supposed to apply my sense of decency to, and then when I point out it's wrong, I get "You don't know me, you can't judge me, only the people that know me can".

I don't care if you love him, or if he's a sweetheart ingame - he was warned, he did it repeatedly, it's time to face the consequences.

[Anubis]

Something nice to come and read after not being at my PC all day.

Whether Chill is a nice guy ingame and only meant the post as a joke doesn't mean to say he can spam crap on the forums whenever he feels like it and get away with it forever.
Chill has infact had more posts of his edited, split, moved and deleted more than anyone else on our forums ever has, thats not a good thing in its self.

this post was a private joke between me and dodo

Thats what PMs are for.

When i've edited/moved/split threads before i've said on a few occasions to plz stop with the spam, KJ has also warned him, yet he still goes on to post this stuff knowing full well they are going to get edited or moved. He knows full well its gonna cause trouble so why do it?
I deleted a post of Chills last week or the week before, yes, deleted. Only one post mind you and i actually said over IRC as i was doing it for anyone that was around at the time. It was a thread that simply said something along the lines of "Read this quick before it gets moved!!"...
He also bumped a thread a while ago which was about a year old, "just to piss MS off" were his words iirc. He only meant it as a joke towards me but as i said ingame to him at the time, its not appropriate on the forums.

Can i ask everyone defending Chill one question please.
Where do you draw the line?

yeah, i spoke to ava about that ingame remember? then i spoke to you. and i aplogised to both of you, and ill do it again, i never meant it maliciously in ANY way.

and ill say that to any of the other people here who think im "snarky and unapolgetic" --for that MS i have, and will again, apologise

Chill....if you're apologising after every incident, as I'm currently led to believe, yet keep behaving in the same way over and over and over your apologies don't actually mean anything, as you plainly aren't sincere in them.

[Stracius]

Private jokes at other people's expense ARE INCLUDED

Again, you dont seem to be reading -- whose expense?

if you read this you are omg fking word filter DAMN YOU QUIZ


suffice to say, if you read this -- you have sex with other men

lets see.. subject of first sentence was Quizzoid. Subject of second sentence is unclear, but rules of the english language typically point to the prior mentioned subject, being in this case Quiz.

Which part did I not read? Herein lies the problem. You know whom you're referring to. The /rest/ of us (or enough, anyway) do not. I suggest either being a little more forthcoming with clarification, or do what a good number of us have figured to do. Keep mouth shut before foot is inserted.

edit add: I should say, Herein lies /one/ of the problems. I'm not even getting into the bit about repeat offenses.

[Chill]

Private jokes at other people's expense ARE INCLUDED

Again, you dont seem to be reading -- whose expense?

if you read this you are omg fking word filter DAMN YOU QUIZ


suffice to say, if you read this -- you have sex with other men

lets see.. subject of first sentence was Quizzoid. Subject of second sentence is unclear, but rules of the english language typically point to the prior mentioned subject, being in this case Quiz.

Which part did I not read? Herein lies the problem. You know whom you're referring to. The /rest/ of us (or enough, anyway) do not. I suggest either being a little more forthcoming with clarification, or do what a good number of us have figured to do. Keep mouth shut before foot is inserted.

edit add: I should say, Herein lies /one/ of the problems. I'm not even getting into the bit about repeat offenses.

yea, but it wasnt directed at quiz at all, was it?

[Shoarmabob]

that was the point of the post: daeron said "something serious coming out of chill's mouth?"
so Chill (as a joke) posted some complete and total nonsense which noone fully understands (not even him most likely)

[Stracius]

Chill, you missed the point. I'm not going to repeat myself. I suggest either figuring it out, or don't. Though I suspect not doing so may eventually involve a forum ban.

peace.

[Ozone]

I'm pretty open minded and don't take too much too seriously. I can't pass judgement here, but will say two things after reading Chill's posts and knowing him in game.

1. Sarcasm can be a beautiful and funny thing amongst friends, but can seem offensive if coming from the young or from those who aren't that skilled in it yet (not to mention if theres a language barrier). It should be read in context.

2. In game, I've always found Chill to be friendly and helpful. On numerous occasions he has come to the help of myself and other low levels to help us through many a quest. True SSX 'help your guildies type stuff'. It is quite refreshing, appreciated and helps me (and others) level so I (we) can join our guild in the 60 festivities sooner.

On a final. If this situation has offended people before, maybe its not the best thing at the moment for a ban, doesn't seem very SSX to me. I'd like to see it discussed (in an adult way) between Chill and those offended in a specific forum (with explanations of why what was said was said and why it offended with apologies as appropriate). Once a proper (mature) discussion occurs and everyone understands each other, then worry about the banning if it occurs again.

Just my two cents (or pence as the case may be).

UBEROZ
Bane of the Grey Menace

[esd]

He's a problem on the forum, but a nice guy ingame?

Simple. Suspend his forum access. Reinstate it at a later date, and then if he still acts up, consider forum banning.

[Ozone]

Misunderstanding I think.

Chill has always helped in game, nor do I personally find his posts offensive as I can see the underlying sarcasm (much as Hannibal Lechter saw the evolvtion of Bill ). But I can understand where folk would be offended.

Would just like to see a forum between Chill and those he has offended opened up for a discussion before a ban is made. Though he may to many have acted in an anti-SSX way in the forums, he, imho, is acting pure SSX in game*. I'm concerned there may be a bit of miscommunication or non-realisation which may lead to the loss of another SSX member.


My opinion posted,
O3

*When a group of low level SSX were about and callled for assistance, Chill was often there, helping with the quests at hand, helping us in our hand ins and sticking about and giving advice on follow up quests.

[esd]

Misunderstanding I think.

Yup, between your eyes and your brain

I didn't say kick him out of the SSX, I suggested that if he's a repeated problem on the forum, remove his posting rights for a while. If he continues to be problem on the forum once they're reinstated, then consider removing his posting rights permanantly, by removing him from the forum.

Not the SSX.

Anyway, how would you know what he's like in game? You should be playing lore, dagnabbit!

[Ozone]

Lol, was in Lore for a few hours oer past few nights, got sidetracked from playing tonight with a convo from DOMINUS for about an hour. Managed to get in some convo and trout slaps to a few regs though (was savin the big one for ya, just developed a quad-supra-tetra-ubersquirmy-fallpoal attack).

No offence and no confrontation meant, just giving my opinion on what I know through personal experience, nor have I given any solid opinion on what's to be done.

The Knight's of Neigh demand a second shrubbey, only slightly higher than this one to achieve a two level effect with a path running up the middle

Oz

[Edit] Soz, veered off into Loreland, still groovin on previous post

[Dodotorpedo]

Private jokes at other people's expense ARE INCLUDED

Again, you dont seem to be reading -- whose expense?

if you read this you are omg fking word filter DAMN YOU QUIZ


suffice to say, if you read this -- you have sex with other men

lets see.. subject of first sentence was Quizzoid. Subject of second sentence is unclear, but rules of the english language typically point to the prior mentioned subject, being in this case Quiz.

No, he said DAMN YOU QUIZ in the middle of the sentance becouse he couldn't say (filtered) couse of the word filter. So the second sentance was a 'remake' that ignored the word filter and was not directed at Quiz.

[Phrank T Phish]

thats more reading than i intended to do today... but anyway...

isnt this just basic policy? if something is deemed offensive to a person / group of persons, then action is taken. doesnt matter if its a joke, private joke, your having a bad day, you were drunk... whatever. once, ok, no problems, dont do it again! this many times? this forum is for the most part open to public scrutiny, and what we post reflects ourselves and our friends here.

personally i didnt find the first comment offensive. but if just 1 person does, then thats too many. what i took issue with was Chill's first comment in this post. if he cant see that SSX is a lot bigger than just the WoW group then this definatly isnt the place to be. imho the clan (SSX)takes precidence over the gaming group (in Chill's case, SSX - WoW division).

he / i / anyone of us could be the perfect person in-game. helping old ladies across the street and getting cats down from tree's (i dunno, maybe theres a game where that does happen. but i cant say killing WB's and giving rares to the needy can i), but its what you put in this forum, read by the greater comunity that reflects on your personality to the clan as a whole. im SSX-NC2, i dont know Chill from in-game so i dont know what hes like. but seeing this here doesnt give me a good impression of him, and thats the problem!

[Kon]

if you read this you are <censored> omg fking word filter DAMN YOU QUIZ


suffice to say, if you read this -- you have sex with other men

Lets put this in English, because I think some people do not understand what he was saying.

If you are reading this you are [three letter word for 'Homosexual' that gets censored by the forum's word filter.]

Oh my God. [Freaking, seems "the 'F' word" also is filtered] word filter! Damn you Quiz!

Suffice to say, if you read this you have sex with other men.

This is, in proper English, what Chill's post meant. Trust me, this is correct. I'm 14 and deal with grammar like this on a daily basis in AIM, because all my friends speak like little BNet Brats.

Now, it was not very nice to use such words, but who is really offended by it? I do agree, however that Chill's apologies are unsympathetic, and that since he has been somewhat of a trouble on the forums, but not ingame, advice him to look over what he posts before he hits that "Submit" button. While we are at it, please Quiz, tone down on the word filter. I realize the purpose of "{alternate word for homosexual}" being filtered, as it might, maybe, insult a few people, but c'mon, "f***ing" For God's sake, even if there are kids around, they are already cursing like drunken sailors by the fifth grade.

Edited the words - filter is there for a reason - BD

[BlackDove]

This isn't a discussion regarding censor rules, please leave that out of the topic.

Also, while some have not understood the point of the post, I did. All the same, I moved it here and began this discussion. It is unacceptable in any form - werther you understand it or not.

[Inquisitor]

Lets cool down for a day or two.

[BlackDove]

Just making a final note here seeing how Quiz omitted it, he might want to post the outcome himself though since "Cooling it off for a day or two" doesn't provide closure.

From what I understood, the issue has been resolved, Chill won't be banned or sanctioned in any way.

Again, Inquisitor might want to post a sum, he was involved with it, I wasn't.

[Stracius]

Glad to see things were worked out

Am rather curious though ^^ but I'll live. Just as long as everyone's ok now.

[Inquisitor]

What were the options?

1) forum ban him
2) kick him from SSX WoW
3) both
4) neither

QD and MS said no to 2), which also elminated 3) realistically, which means he was still a "member."

1) would have just validated his opinion of the "core" and that would have been used to spread dissent in what has recently been an already troubled group.

4) wasn't really an option, something had to be done, carrying on status quo was out.

So what did I do...

I went and had a beer with someone who was familiar with his angelic in game persona. I chatted with his friends (many of whom are also my friends).

I was hoping someone would tell me he's just as big a jackass when he's playing. I was looking for a reason to ask MS/QD for more than just a forum ban. I didn't manage to find one.

So I yelled at him for an hour (and he yelled at me) and tried to see if there was anything salvageable. I think we came to terms. This is a two way street, this respect thing. He felt alienated and projected that alienation onto a larger WoW population. My main argument was that the only way he could have been alienated was if he did it to himself (this goes for anyone who feels that way). If I, part of the mysterious core, was going out of my way to go into town and meet one of these "alienated" WoW euro gamers, it couldn't be as bad as he seemed to believe. That may be an oversimplfication of the discussion, but that's the crux I think.

What's the solution?

Try again, maybe I was just wrong, and my being wrong made his bad side come into focus which made it thrive and made it worse.

The short answer? These are moderated forums, we expect a certain amount of propriety and a modicum of taste. We use them for communication, organization, and general sharing of knowledge. We take them fairly seriously, because we do not want them to be another assinine game forum, full of crap, with all noise and no signal.

And we ask that everyone respect that.

So we try again. Sometimes you do that. Sometimes you try again. We try with someone who is well respected and liked in game for being a pinnacle of their community, for helping when asked, and generally being everything we expect each other to be, but we demand that it carries over into the non-game forums. It means we both try. For this to work, chill has to try as well.

That was the decision I came to and roughly the thought process involved in coming to it. I had intended to let it stew for another day, but meh.

BD did absolutely the right thing by splitting this post. And, since it had been a (apparent) repeat of a problem (as it turned out a misunderstanding in this particular posts case) , one that has had it's fair share of discussion, was absolutely right to post it here. A pattern had begun to emerge, and nobody much cared for it, so it had to stop. You may disagree with BD, or his word choice, but he was absolutely right to do what he did. He thought we had a problem, and he thought we should solve it. I am glad he did. Whether it is solved remains to be seen, but it's alot clearer to me now than it was on Friday.

You knowwhere I dwell, if this needs clarification come find me.