to inform the members about current issues

[Stracius]

the '' dkp leeches '' in guild will soon all be noticed...

Just be careful no witch hunts are started in the process. They're not pretty.

Many people may be unable to do BWL. It is a step up from MC, and not everyone may be equiped to deal with that. Maybe they think that they would be a burden to the raid, or maybe they just don't think dying every two seconds because they have bad gear, and eventually resulting in broken gear is fun.

No need for a devil's advocate in this case, methinks Kahn. People are more than capable of defending their actions themselves ;-) . Just need to be upfront and ask them, avoiding negative assumptions at all cost.

Really though, this is a hard call. I left WoW right as BWL had just been released. We didn't even run it to my recollection, so calling on experience in this case is moot. The best suggestion I've seen so far is just getting people to act in the spirit of the SSX, and finding out why (thankfully) few aren't. That and keeping a cool head always helps prevail *halo* *whistles innocently while looking in the other direction*

[Chill]

politics are AWESOME

[Ozone]

Ahh! The voice of UBEROZ appears! Killer of the grey menace and keeper of the really bendy thumb! Guys, I'm not raid level yet (well sorta just got there) and moved into the WoW part of the guild due to the freindship of those in other games. Seems a lot of justification and angst may be developing on the WoW front.

Now, not as a radier (atm) may I give some thoughts (please note these are my personal views, not SSX):

- If you have an item, you shouldn't bid on it.

- If you want an item you don't own and someone actually wants it and can use it to improve and help in the future, sacrifice it (I've done this many a time, even at low level). You'll get a reciprication in the future.

- If anyone is too gung ho and can't sacrifice a drop, have the raid leader check the validity of the needs of the player requesting/bidding. The raid leader should have say on who needs what for future raids (based on attendance, equipment, requirements, skill levels etc.) and the gung ho bidder (SSX member) should accept it.

The idea I'm getting is that the leaders of the raids are conductors of soloists who are working together for a symphony, but many of the musicians are intent on playing their own closures (making the finishing bars a caphonic mess after a great preformance). Skilled members of the orchestra follow their conductors, get a standing ovation at the end and all members benefit. The soloists tend to end up playing cheap bars, pubs and coffee shops.

Also:

- Might be nice to start a repair bank; all SSX members donate some of their monetary profits per session (even if just a few coppers, though 5 to 10% of take wouldn't hurt at all, depending on level). Raid 'regulars' short on repair cash can draw from it. This would be advantageous to all of us in the future as we'll all be there. Granted this would be an option, if ya don't donate, ya cant draw.

-LETS start some posts on what we can do and share with other members. I've been doing it with my pots (know its not good enough yet for 60 (soz, but gettin there), but its also listed for those of lower levels to use) - example: http://www.shatteredstar.org/ssx/forums ... php?t=2707

Also, I'm perfecting the guitar and I got George on a tin-whistle (he couldn't handle drumsticks due to lack of opposable thumbs - but he is still having some probs due to lack of lips). We can do 'Twinke-twinkle Lillte Star' and are available for birthdays, anniversaries, bar-mitzvas, etc...

[Dodotorpedo]

\nThe idea I'm getting is that the leaders of the raids are conductors of soloists who are working together for a symphony, but many of the musicians are intent on playing their own closures (making the finishing bars a caphonic mess after a great preformance). Skilled members of the orchestra follow their conductors, get a standing ovation at the end and all members benefit. The soloists tend to end up playing cheap bars, pubs and coffee shops.

Lmao, makes sense though :P

- Might be nice to start a repair bank; all SSX members donate some of their monetary profits per session (even if just a few coppers, though 5 to 10% of take wouldn't hurt at all, depending on level). Raid 'regulars' short on repair cash can draw from it. This would be advantageous to all of us in the future as we'll all be there. Granted this would be an option, if ya don't donate, ya cant draw.

If you can't draw unless you donate, wouldn't that just mean you eventually get the money you donated back? :P
Repairs are no big deal for a clothy like me, if my full gear breaks it only costs 5G. Ava's repair costs aremore around 15G or something though, and his break a lot since he's MT ;< Wouldn't mind sparing an extra gold every raid for tank repair costs. (if everyone does that you got 40 gold to divide between tanks ^^)

[Ozone]

\nThe idea I'm getting is that the leaders of the raids are conductors of soloists who are working together for a symphony, but many of the musicians are intent on playing their own closures (making the finishing bars a caphonic mess after a great preformance). Skilled members of the orchestra follow their conductors, get a standing ovation at the end and all members benefit. The soloists tend to end up playing cheap bars, pubs and coffee shops.

Lmao, makes sense though :P

- Might be nice to start a repair bank; all SSX members donate some of their monetary profits per session (even if just a few coppers, though 5 to 10% of take wouldn't hurt at all, depending on level). Raid 'regulars' short on repair cash can draw from it. This would be advantageous to all of us in the future as we'll all be there. Granted this would be an option, if ya don't donate, ya cant draw.

If you can't draw unless you donate, wouldn't that just mean you eventually get the money you donated back? :P
Repairs are no big deal for a clothy like me, if my full gear breaks it only costs 5G. Ava's repair costs aremore around 15G or something though, and his break a lot since he's MT ;< Wouldn't mind sparing an extra gold every raid for tank repair costs. (if everyone does that you got 40 gold to divide between tanks ^^)

Yep. But I don't mind droping 40 coppers here, 2-3 silvers there or 1-2 gold wherever towards a repair fund. If all th guildies did it (after farming and such) we'd have a kickin account. Those that need it, and request it, use it, gain a bit of extra on future adventures (and/or raids) and donate a percentage of their future claims back to the pot. Crap, I'm lvl51, am strugglin, have 35 gold and am wiling to start the pot with 10g (yep, I'm serious). It will be a start to help SSX, which I'm groovie with. If someone has a 5g repair they can draw it (cuz thats the armour they wear) and another has a 15g repair (cuz thats what they wear)... both have done their job and both are as necessary as the other. In the end, if each donates back a small percentage of future winnings (raids and farming), seems to work out.

[LIGHTNING]

I'm also having the same issues in Conquer Online. Leechers, and random arses like to join different guilds, and like to start trouble with random guilds. Even putting a currently small guild like the SSX, and trying to start with one of the more established, and stronger guilds in the game.

Though the SSX method of vouching for members is an effective means of filtering out all these people, I find that people get impatient in these games, when their status through the guild is not elevated.

Just to throw this on the table, anyone else in other games experience random people asking You (Or the SSX in General) to be made a Deputy Leader (Or some other random higher ranked member) out of the blue?

I get that allot in Conquer. Random people who I don't know will come up, and just whispers me, "Hey! Make me a Deputy Leader Please!"

And players who you think will have a great future with the SSX, will be polite, and ask to join, and stuff. But after a few days, they leave.

*Sigh*

Open for comments.

[Gryphon]

Yeah - we had an SSXer in neocron a while ago, with delusions of power. He went through Direct messaging each and every Admin character in the clan, saying he was supposed to be rank 14 (Deputy).

I find people like this extremely annoying

[BlackDove]

I find them /instakick +1

[Inquisitor]

People who beg for leadership very rarely, if ever deserve it. When someone begs, they go to the bottom of the list.

Wanting to be in charge that bad means you do not view it as a responsibility. You don't understand what you are asking for.

Being in charge isn't a reward. It may be an acknowledgement of someone's abilities, but it's not a reward. It's a responsibility. Being in charge in a game means you are now responsible for other people having fun, and that means you are willingly having less fun to do it.

People who understand that deserve it, becuase that means they are alot less likley to abuse it.

Back to the topic at hand.

[Sofia]

Yeah - we had an SSXer in neocron a while ago, with delusions of power. He went through Direct messaging each and every Admin character in the clan, saying he was supposed to be rank 14 (Deputy).

Unfortunately i know only the wow-grp first hand. From our littl nuthouse however i can say almost proud that ranks are (almost) completely out of the game. We reduced the ranks to the least possible number of 6 & out of those only 3 serve any purpose at all.

Effectively: New members (recently recruited folks) / members (everyone else) / mods.

The rarely used silance rank for obvious purpose + a "blind rank" we simply cant remove & last but not least the Guildmaster position occupied by our trustworthy lv2 Dorf Pally bank wearing a pink dress & a 19 pound catfish in his offhand (he lved up because ant aggroed a lv6 boar, only god knows HOW, on his way to the capital city & ms saved his ass).

Every member in SSX-wow knows that ranks have no meaning beyond the mentioned purpose & it works absolutely fine for us. Maybe apart of the modcrew where we experienced some shifts & burn outs of ppl pulling their weight in immensity over a long time.

Considering a group as big as us folks on Bladefist... its working damn well.

Back to the topic at hand.

Nearly forgot about the actually issue at hand. I went through all SSX-Members on our DKP site, checking their raidattendence in the past 3 weeks, especially about dropping out of a raid when we progressed on to BWL. Thats as far back as i could go, because of our redone dkp site... which makes the information i had to deal with quite narrow, but sufficient to get an overview without me snapping finally.

In conclusion i can say that not a single member showed leech bahaviour in any outstanding form. Of those who catched my attention i knew either that they had a good excuse of not beeing there, or they could be considered inactive. Anyway, almost every active & capable person was several times in BWL over the past 3 weeks... certain keyplayers more often than others, but still.

Just be careful no witch hunts are started in the process. They're not pretty.

One of the ppl in question when discussing the leech problem was ONLY on a single raid (Onyxia) in the past 3 weeks. He dropped out of the raid when we progressed to BWL & loged his alt to have a long chat with ava explaining that he has severe rl problems he has to sort out & thus tries to reduce his wow-time. He got flamed for beeing a leech & is almost about to leave the guild by now. Tell me: How can someone be a leech if he only takes place in one raid over the past 3 weeks & has the VERY BEST excuse for not beeing there ontop? You cant leech if you dont raid -.-

The sick feeling we get ingame when MC is scheduled probably comes from the large amount of ppl who bother to log on, more than we would need, compared to a BWL raid which isnt really scheduled & divided over several days. Take into account that not everyone is able to raid every day for several days every week... go figure. The conclusion i get from all this however is simply that ppl still prefer a MC raid for obvious reasons (most dkp, guaranteed drops), but the dedication to work on BWL is given just aswell.

Finally: Last week several mates dropped after Ony. Not a single person dropped out of todays ONY raid when ssx progressed to BWL. NOT ONE.

[QuantumDelta]

Sofia, in terms of analysis of the DKP system via raid attendance % or stated raid presence, isn't entirely accurate anyway since we flex the mod about as far as it can go.
every time there's something different -.-

[Sofia]

I left the attendance % completely out & oriented my analysis around dkp gain for bosskills & raid presence in those cases no boss was killed. I would be surprised if the dkp gain is flexed about aswell.

However, it was meant to give an aproximate overlook & even if the data isnt accurate 100% its still better than to make assumptions out of the blue, or go from a single event you noticed ingame & flame ppl: BURN YOU LEECH!!!

[Sofia]

Despite that, yesterdays ony raid clearly shows that bringing an issue to the ppls attention > drama, kicking & screaming. This thread served its purpose already... now make sure it stays this way.

[Inquisitor]

Can we consider this closed for the moment?

[Sofia]

I belive the message has been understood quiz.

[Inquisitor]

Excellent, process in action!