WoW-Manno's current status and progress - your thoughts?

[Magdalena]

Ok, as most of us know Manno has taken some steps recently and started doing things on our own as a guild. We know we have a great group of people here and an enjoyable feel to the group.

One of our goals though as we've grown has been to learn from the past mistake of others as well as from our own experiences. If you've watched what has happened to other groups that hit the 40 man mark, you know there are still challenging times ahead and things we need to think about how to handle ahead of time.

Brainstorming in vent in the past has resulted in total silence, so I'm bringing the brainstorm here for ideas thoughts and suggestions from all SSX members.

One common issue I have seen in the recent issues both on the SSX-EU side and as many of you also know it appears there were similar issues that split our alliance guild STNY apart. Both were/are great groups of people much like ourselves, but as time went by players started wanting more from the game and wanted to push further in raiding etc while others have more fun sitting back and skipping along at a much more leisurely pace.

The two tend ideals tend to clash against each other in this game a lot, and it's something that I personally believe we need to look at before we have two opposing forces at each others throats so to speak.

Right now this isn't as visible in the Mannoroth group, but to some extent it is still there silently stirring. There are some of us that have more fun leveling alts, others that enjoy the pvp life, and some that want to be raiding more than we are right now. They all love our group and wouldn't switch one another out for the world, but also those that enjoy raiding get frustrated with casuals and casuals get frustrated with raiding. Neither play style is wrong, but having them in the same group relying on one another can as you've no doubt seen cause issues. There are even others like myself that are somewhere in the middle... enjoy raiding most of the time, come prepared to work hard at it, but at the same time don't want to do it every single night and have all of the hardcore rules most raiding guilds have. But getting stricter on rules for it isn't the only place that can destroy the balance between those that enjoy different aspects of the game. Going too non-challant and daydreaming through a raid can ruin it for those that enjoy downing new bosses and reaching new encounters. This is the direction I've already had reports of from a handful of people, and not on 40-man raids, in fact mostly on 5-man raids. Having fun is one thing, but having fun and costing others misery shouldn't be acceptable. If you're new and don't know the run... ask, others are happy to assist. If you're not and just aren't focused, show your fellow mates a little courtesy. On 5-mans this should be pretty easy, let someone else fill in, chances are there is someone else there that could help the group.

I don't know about everybody else's feelings on this, but I personally would rather stop a 20 or 40-man even when people aren't focused than keep dieing repeatedly due to not paying attention.

The most important thing I think though is keeping open communication, not being pushed a direction because you feel an obligation and knowing and respecting what each other enjoys out of the game. For this to happen though we have to share in a neutral way what we enjoy and what accomplishments we'd like to achieve and see if their workable without ruining the game for one another. This dedication may be different for different alts too, that's okay.

Here's mine right now:

Magdalena - 60 Warrior - Dedicated Tank - I enjoy going out and raiding with her, defeating new content and getting SSX-Manno firsts. I don't care where we are alongside other guilds as far as progress, only that we are making progress for us.

Alma - 60 Mage - PVP - Love to pvp with my mage in just about all the pvp instances. Would like to get a little gear on her to make more effective in these, but not a major concern and doing it somewhat with pvp itself. She's my fun character, and enjoy taking her to places I've already conquered and are otherwise a bore if I were to bring my main as well.

Rafa - 60 Rogue - used mainly for farming dark iron and burning essence for the guild... may play pvp later, but I'm not sure.

I live for the weekend raids with you guys with Mag... get so excited its unreal every time we down something new. Right now would like to focus her on AQ20 and MC runs, hoping to get to BWL at least before the expansion to see some things I've never encountered before. (Would love to see us in AQ40 and Naxx, but don't think that's a realistic timeline unless we had the same exact people showing up every weekend...)

I despise the ZG instance, think it's the worst ever created in this game, so likelihood of seeing me on those is very low, and the times I do go it will most likely be with Alma.

If you have something you'd like to be discussed, please bring it here in a civil manner. Don't worry about stepping on toes etc, just everybody understand we're not always going to all have the same views on everything. Start a separate topic though to keep the discussions on topic.

I will be doing the same for a couple of items I have on the table right now, this being one of them.

[Bladesinger]

I'm glad this was brought to the forums Mel, thank you. Right now I'm pretty happy with the way things are going with the group. I enjoy the Friday/Saturday raid schedule and the general lack of pressure to attend should something come up in real life. I would be happy if those two were the only two days/nights we ever raided in an organized manner.

What I think helps us on the whole (Preparation H is good, on the whole) are the weekday pickup raids I've seen being run lately. Some of us are into raiding on more than a casual or weekend basis and this seems to be a good pressure-release valve. I see raid-focus as a natural progression for someone who's really into playing one character and not running a bunch of alts. It seems to me to be somewhat inevitable as there are only so many things a player can do before all character 'progress' is focued into raiding and better loot acquisition to avoid stagnation. I believe the expansion will alleviate some of this raid-focus to a degree as it will give those single-toon players more content with which to achieve progress that isn't dependant upon loot to increase stats. Is that really 'progress' anyway?

What I think we need to be most careful of in the immediate future is recruiting. We've recently gained a number of really cool new people and our numbers are such that we can do portions the larger instances on our own. Attaining the plateau of self-sufficiency is going to be vital to our continuance as a guild if we're to not lose members to raiding groups. What we need to watch out for is growing too fast and not fully assimilating our new members before gaining yet more people.

I understand the argument that with the increasing number of small-group raids we won't need as many people on all the time to allow regular raiding in new zones. However, we're still going to need the MC/AQ/BWL/Naxx content to achieve the status necessary to run the smaller group raids. I can't believe that Blizzard would create content that would completely skip over these larger raids completely. It's meant for, and designed for, players who are already 60 and have completed a fair amount, if not all, of the current content after all.

Closeness and familiarity are what make SSX Mannoroth the wonderful group we are. We all need to make the effort to get to know eachother and build the bonds of friendship that will hold us together through arguments and differences of opinion. Once we've achieved that we could then most effectively recruit new members who are of a like mind and temperament.

As far as overall direction, like you said Mel, everyone has their own focus and reasons for playing. What we *all* have to understand and respect is that we're a group of people with diverse interests. Sometimes guild activity will mean raiding, sometimes PVP, and other times PVE character/alt building. I don't want to see us become anything other than what we already are in this regard. To start focusing on any one aspect of the game will change us into something we're not.

Our only over-riding commonality is that we're here for fun and for interaction with eachother. We need to emphasize that. If we're to progress as a group what we really need to be doing is spending more time in ventrilo talking with eachother and getting to be more familiar with the people in the guild.


Personal direction:

I enjoy doing the 20/40 raids but I love the 5/10 instances the most and am always up for running them if I have the time.

Velorraena- I want to get the money for her epic mount and get equipped better so she's be survivable in the new content. My main interest in the game is exploring the new content and finding new loot. Even if I don't get it I get a thrill when I see cool things drop. She's defintely my main interest and will be until I can't get any more content progress and hardware upgrades for her.

Averegor- I made him to be an assistant for people leveling alts around his level. He's slowly creeping up there and will eventually get to the point where he can do the 5-10 man runs. Once he's there he's going to be assigned protection spec to help people running those instances but don't have a tank.

Uthok- He's just a fun toon to play when I don't feel like playing Vel or Averegor or when we feel like playing Horde as a group.

[lili]

Like Mel and Phil says, I think we have a really good group right now and there's a lot of helping eachother involved which I love. I personally haven't been able to do as much due to school and personal issues and I like to appoligize for that. I will try to be on more often now and hopefully without distractions since this will probably be the last year that I have lots of time to do things for myself.

Anyhoo, I think that as a group we can progress to do just about anything we set our minds to and still have fun at it. The recent recruiting has really made that come to light. We have gotten a great group of new people and it has been such a pleasure to raid with all of you guys.

I agree with phil that we need to get our new members well integrated before we expand as much as we just did so that no one will feel left out. It doesn't mean we should stop all the recruiting, just slow it down a bit and be a little more picky while we adjust to our bigger family.

I think the fact that most of us are a bit on the older side makes it much easier for adjustments, we are all considerate people and I believe that none of us will ever force anyone else to do something that person does not want to do.

And Phil what the hell are you talking about "Preparation H"? *shudder* there's actually a plastic jar I guess is what I have to call it of those pads in the staff bathroom where I was these past 4 weeks. I did not want to think that people actaully shared that stuff.

As for my chars:
Babydolly: lvl 60 mage and only lvl 60 I got, I will be raiding with and pvping with her.

I also have a toon in about every 10th lvl (one in the 10's 20's 30's 40's and 50's) so I can always hop on one of those for helping people. (I was a little too ambitious at one point thinking I can lvl all of those up to 60.)

Can't wait to see what we can do tomorrow night! I promise to be in brighter spirits =).

[Fenavian]

*sigh* I really need to work on Vasama..

[Lilleth]

Well, I've been playing WoW for about 6 months...funnily (is that even a word??) enough, since around the time our third baby was born...

In that time, I've managed to get a NE Hunter up to lvl 42 (yay! she's got a mount!) on a PvE server (Kargath, if anyone's interested...lol). So, up to 40 in 6 months...I guess you'd call me a casual player

I'm so excited to have found a home in SSX! I'm now working on getting Lilleth to 60...she's lvl'd faster than I expected, so hopefully she'll be there in a few months...in the meantime, I'm finding my place in SSX and Mannoroth...still not used to having to defend myself against Horde in contested areas...lol.

I'm sure once I get my OWN WoW account ('puter is in the works...takes time to save for big-ticket purchases in a one-income family ), Lilleth will be lvling faster. Now that she's almost at 30, I'm starting to realize she needs to start some of the lower-level instances...Stockade, BFD, etc...I still haven't even done VC...hehe. I'd rather do the standard 5-man groups than have a higher lvl run me through these instances...so I hope I can call on some of the lower- and mid-lvl alts in the guild, rather than relying on PUGs.

I like the idea of weekend raids, and I'm excited at the prospect of taking part once Lilleth is high enough lvl. With young kids, though...it can be tough...bedtimes aren't flexible around our house...and that means both Axavier and I putting the kiddies to bed at a certain time, even on weekends. Lily is another matter...she's under a year, and still breastfeeding, so *I* need to be flexible where she's concerned...but I'm putting the cart before the horse, so to speak...as I said before, Lilleth is months away from MC, Ony, BWL and the like, obviously! Weekend raids during the early afternoon are good...unless we have plans with extended family...sometimes unexpected plans with extended family...(my parents tend to like to "drop by" to visit...and, no matter what, WoW IS just a computer game...family visits come first!)

I've just started rambling, it seems

Bottom line, I'm reading the posts in the forums, I'm chatting in vent, I'm getting to know everyone. I'm paying more attention when Jason's raiding with Axavier or Jaysen, asking him questions about the raids (and annoying and distracting him in the process...sorry!)...I'm building up the nerve to actually take him up on the offer of playing one of them in a raid myself , just to get a feel for 20- and 40-man raids (I've never done more than a 5-man). I'm learning...and SSX is a great place to learn, I'm finding. I appreciate being given the opportunity to do more than just muddle through the game on a carebear server, aimlessly questing and farming.

So, I don't know if this is the kind of input you're looking for, Mel...but there's my two cents

[Magdalena]

Thanks for the response, glad to hear your enjoying your time with us. You should take Axavier up on his offer if you want to, sounds like you're worried about it and you shouldn't be. There are usually at least 19 people there to help you out and we'll all be more than happy to do so.

Chances are there's somebody with an alt around your level on here, though getting them on it Fridays and Saturdays may be a little tough sometimes.

I've got several in the 20s and in the 40s personally, so if you need help once you get into that range, I can run through some with you on weeknights...

Most of the time it's best to do it with a group at your level, but there are some I can think of that can get frustrating to the point of grabbing a 60 just to get the quest done with... I'm willing to help where I can in either case...

[lili]

Yeah, most of us have plenty of alts with lvl's all over the place. If you feel bored just ask anybody, we can either run you though or lvl up with you.