Magdalena's Discussion Topic This Week

Magdalena · Post by **Magdalena** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 8:58 pm

First, if you're reading this of your own accord, not because someone told you it was here and/or told you to go read it, you're likely one of the people that keeps me coming back every Friday and Saturday night in spite of all the frustrations. From what I've seen, those that actually read the forums up here and participate in discussions on their own, usually understand the reasoning behind requests made and care enough about the group to do their best to help in any way possible. So, why do I post my frustrations up here knowing those they're aimed at will likely only read it at gunpoint? The reason is simple, in getting the cooperation of those that do care enough about the group, I hope to get us thriving with like-minded individuals working toward a common goal.

I won't undercut the progress we've made by ignoring it, we've done some great things in such a short amount of time, but the last few weekends it seems more and more are giving up on us. We've gotten no further, and this week actually overall backtracked. (For the full weekend we only got as far as Baron)

I don't know about the rest of you, but one thing that gets to me during this is all of the waiting around. We don't know who's going to show up or when they will because they have been ignoring our pleas to get GEM and use it. Once we do get people we're having afk's every few minutes that cause the entire group to sit back and wait. People are notorious for going afk while prepping for a boss battle. People lose focus, and things start falling apart. I believe this is in large part because we have over time obtained members that do not care about the same things or have the same goals in this game. From my personal gathering, some go to raiding for getting through the content and for the people, while others are just there for the people.

There's nothing wrong with either category, but combining the two is extremely tricky and rarely succeeds. So far to be honest we don't have a fully working formula. Where we've tried to be is at a point with a lower raid schedule that allows the first group their raid fun and requires little of the second group, however it seems those of us wanting raid content are still asking too much of the others. We still can't get the 1 raid we hold started on time, still have people constantly going afk, and still can not keep focus, and can't even get people to sign up for the raids. We had most of this the first few weeks and had a blast together, but it's been dwindling. Right now we're stuck in AQ, ZG, and MC due to not enough interested in certain classes to make a balanced group to finish them out. Which class we're missing varies widely, but we're almost always short somewhere. Of course one of the ways to resolve this is to get more people to fill those classes, etc... but recruiting can take time and in the meantime we're having more and more people getting tired of sitting around waiting and wiping and wiping and wiping, not on new content but on content we've already gotten down before.
Last Saturday for example, we had only 15 people show up on time so went to AQ20 instead... then others started logging on at around 8:30 and wondering why we're not in MC and disappointed there wasn't space.

Waiting around so long had a huge hit to the morale of the group though, and makes someone like myself feel like I've just wasted my whole night since the majority of it was spent waiting in IF.

Times like that are going to happen sometimes where not enough can make it, the problem isn't with that it's with not knowing ahead of time to make other plans. And not having a plan of action for when it happens. For either of those, we'd have to have the entire guild using GEM which isn't happening and I personally feel like I'm wasting my breath mentioning it or the forums anymore, and I refuse to go around to each individual person and hold their hand reminding them constantly when we're doing what.

My proposal is to start hitting them where they'll notice it... if they still don't care enough about this, then let them sit it out. Set up sign-ups for pugs... if we are short in a certain area look on the list of sign ups for the first member of that class and bring them in at the very beginning. The plan being to fill up an entire MC raid of 40 people, those that come late would not have a spot available unless someone leaves.

Attendance would still be taken for SSX members but classes with pugs in their class would have freeroll on all items against the pugs with the exception of T2 items, and these would not go towards their percentage as a reward for having to roll off. Only items on which no pugs rolled would be added to your percentage. T2 items would be SSX only rolls and declared such at the beginnging.

Breaks would be scheduled after every 2nd boss (Magmadar, Garr, Shazz, Golemagg) for a time of 10 minutes.

If we have fewer than 25 SSX members signed up by Wednesday prior to the raid, the raid is cancelled automatically.

Pugs would be directed to a separate channel in GEM where we would have them sign up and bring in on a first come first serve basis depending on class needed at that time.

The only time spaces would be reserved is in the event an SSX member signed up but posted on the forums that they would be ariving late and what time they would be ariving. In the event this happened, no more than 5 spaces would be held for such members and would be given to the first 5 to do so.

No spaces would be reserved more than an hour past raid start time. Additional spaces that open up later would be given first to SSX members that signed up on GEM, and if none are on at that time would then go to pugs signed up on GEM.

If GEM is unavailable due to a patch, a sign-up sheet would be made here on the forums.

The only alternative I see to implementing something like this is to start cancelling raids entirely if there are not enough people signed up. We've tried spreading the word... have repeated it in the guild MOTD, on the forums, mentioned during meetings, mentioned on vent before during and after raids.

If you have other ideas for this or agree with one I've mentioned, please post it up. I can't get everyone's opinion because of how many don't listen to read the forums or download the ui's... but hoping I get enough input this time to make some direction one way or another. This is not just an officer discussion and it is not just a WoW group discussion, I'm looking for valuable input, but be willing to stand behind what you chose. I'm willing to make the calls and tell people the bad news in the above I listed. Be willing to do the same for any suggestion you make or agree with, and know there are downsides to any plan... in this situation there always will be, but some are worse than others.

lili · Post by **lili** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 3:40 am

I can honestly say that it was very frustrating on Saturday night when nobody showed up. GEM is up for a reason use it people. I agree with Mel, if there isn't enough signed up cancel the raid automatically. I have put up GEM for the next 4 weeks so you can plan ahead.

Bladesinger · Post by **Bladesinger** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 1:00 pm

I agree, Saturday was very very frusterating for me. I had planned to be raiding with the group because it was one of the few times that I've actually been able to take that time off from my work. I was expecting MC and was pretty ticked that we didn't get the attendance to go. I was really looking forward to it. As soon as we wiped a couple times on Ragaxx (whom I stayed far away from

) I was kicking myself for going and wishing I'd been doing my work instead.

Again, I agree get GEM and use it!. I'm being a bit of a hypocrite here since I couldn't actually sign up on it for some reason. Still, it helped me know well in advance what time the raid was going to be which was great. We do need to make sure everyone's GEM schedule is synchronized to server time. That might resolve the problems we had with a few people the other night.

On PUGgies. I'm somewhat torn on the idea. I think filling in the raid with them so we can actually go is a great idea. I'm just not sure how I feel about random people coming in and competing for loot. It's like having a bunch of alts running and rolling on stuff that I'm trying to get for my main which will actually help guild progression.

I understand the argument that without a full raid we can't even go and thereby have zero chance at getting equipment. If we don't go, we don't go. There are plenty of other things to do that will further my character's ability to aid group progression. Or, God forbid, I might do homework or even...gasp....go out.

I know not raiding will save me money as opposed to having another 5-6 wipe run with nothing to show for it but a repair bill. Those mats and mount don't come cheap.

I'll admit that the main reason I go to MC, or any 20+ raid for that matter, is to improve Vel's gear. I enjoy seeing the new areas and am REALLY looking forward to talking with Rag then progressing to BWL. However, once I've seen it, it's not new any more and the best reason to go is to get the loot that will help us get to the next new area.

To be honest, raids aren't really great social events for me either. With as much concentration I need to put into it and the general need for quiet over the vent channel I can get better interaction with guildies sitting in IF or doing quests/small instances. I do go on them to play with y'all, but it's not as major a factor as gear improvements.

If we're going to be inviting PUGgies perhaps we need to institute a One Need policy for guild members similar to what I proposed for the main/alt discussion. Each guild member is allowed to roll Need on items until they get one on a Need roll then must roll Greed for the remainder of the run, barring a T2 drop. This would apply to T1 BoP and trash BoE alike. I know I would be PISSED if a PUGgie beat me out for the next BoP Giantstalker piece I need.

This is a guild run and guild members who show up should be given priority. That's the chance PUGgies take when going on a guild run. They also know there will be opportunities to roll on items equally with guildies as well, but that they may be fewer than normal.

T2 should be straight up guild only.

We also need to do everything we can to reduce down time. That's the main raid-killer right there. I like the idea of resting every other boss, that's a good one. However, it will really only work if we're not spending 20-30 min preparing for each boss fight each time we make an attempt. I know I won't be able to go the hour and a half between bosses if I've been drinking at all that night.

Then again, I could be wrong.....

Padishar · Post by **Padishar** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 9:38 pm

Crud sorry, I do use GEM to check raid times but don't usually sign up as I don't know till last min if I can make it or not half the time this semester

I have to start cramming a little since I don't ahve alot of time left on my Military Gov funds left

So I got school n work, plus trying to pass my CNE and NET+ exams at same time.... bleh....

Will try and give better forwarning tho since it is becoming a problem in general of people not signing up when they should.

JonisRahl · Post by **JonisRahl** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 2:57 am

I have very strong feelings on everyone getting GEM and use it to help get us all signed up for raid....it should be enforced ASAP
If they are not signed up on GEM or have posted on the forums ...I would lean more along the line of if you have used the special section in forum to say I want to be there am signed up but am not signed up on gem because there is a good chance I can't be there on time or will be a little late.
I really do not want to pug it out....I will if that is the conclusion we come too.
Thank you Magdalene for all your thoughts and feelings on this matter and all the great work you do forum and in game sorry that it has been so frustrating you are appreciated every day!!

Jophiel · Post by **Jophiel** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 11:12 pm

I do like Mel's suggestions.

I have not signed up for raids due to the fact that on Friday's I'm only about to show up about an hour after start. If we do decide to fill in with pugs, then that leaves me out in the cold and I won't beable to run MC with you guys. If you have noticed, I'm there everyweekend and will continue to be unless I'm out of town. There are probably other people in situations as myself, and I do not think that we should be punished due to the fact that our schedules do not agree entirely with the raid times. I'm always there right after lucy or if you guys are going quickly, right after Magmadar.

Just something to consider.

Post by **Kaino** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:38 am

I've been patiently waiting on something like this for several weeks now. I agree 100% with filling the remainder of the raid with pick ups, and was wondering when we were finally going to start doing this. We can only raid MC twice a week, and there is no reason for us to stop halfway every time because we cannot get enough members online to finish the rest. Of course I would rather have a full guild raid instead of a half-way pug, but if it keeps us from progressing through the game, then we're just wasting time. I also agree that if people keep coming on late and seeing their positions filled by random guys, they'll be a bit more likely to dl GEM, sign-up, and get there when it starts. So I'm with you all the way on this Mag, good call.

Trixster · Post by **Trixster** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 4:42 pm

Ok first off for the record I dont like the idea of bring 1/2 the raid pugs.. I have a hard enoph times with the jerks i know following directions. jk

things i am more concerned with is the fact that one night we have 35+ pepole show for run, the next night cant get 20 online..

This shows that there is a problem.

First is it the issues that some where having where gem was showing a diffrent time? If this is the case the MOD that was put up should resolve that issue.

Or are the time slots that were voted on during times our members cant attend?? If so we should see what happens over the next few runs. and have another vote for the raiding times again...

Are there just alot of pepole who dont want to raid??
if so then we need to take a look at how many do and get a few members to help up fill up the missing slots. or decided that we are not going in that direction.

just my 2 cents.

Padishar · Post by **Padishar** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 8:10 pm

Just to give heads up, prob going to be late to Fridays run as I have to run out to Detroit Airport first. So not going to sign up on GEM (unless you think I should) as I don't want to be misleading.

If I miss getting a spot its completely understandable, cuz of tardiness

lili · Post by **lili** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 8:11 am

I won't be late Friday...well I might be if nobody wakes me up. I took call tonight so I can have a long weekend. Yay for being up for 21 hours! By the time I get home I would have been up for 26 or 27 hours. But I'll be way way early for the raid Friday night. I can't think straight and there's a patient to be seen not good not good. Need sugar.

*pop some butterscotch candy*

callania · Post by **callania** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 5:21 pm

Im afraid i cant be much help in this situation... i love the idea of gem, but i know that for me, as well as a few others apparently, i cant always use it- as i never know when ill be called upon for rabbit duties... i can only promise to use it on fridays and weekdays when i know that said rabbit duties will not interfere. that being said i hope im not adding to the frustration too much by not using on one of the big mc days

love ya guys <3
cally

lili · Post by **lili** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 7:19 am

No worries cally as long as you sign up for the ones you know.

lili · Post by **lili** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 7:20 am

No worries cally just sign up for the ones you know.