Greetings everyone,
I just wanted to talk about the MC runs we have on Fridays and Saturdays. I know we stopped after two attempts at Domo on Saturday, but it seemed that people were losing focus. It was late when we were fighting Domo (which is a very difficult fight BTW) and so I would like to make the following suggestion.
On Friday we try and clear to Domo so that on Saturday we can fight Domo and have alot of time to work on our tactics to down Rag.
This might seem like a tall order, but on Friday we got to the first boss in just less than 20 minutes which was great. There was not much instruction for the trash mobs and people just handled things. Chain pull FTW =). I am not sure if we could cut out more time if we fought back out of Mags cave or if the IF port and return flight is fast enough. Anyone have an opinion on that?
On Saturday night we had thought to try on Sunday to have a whole day, but since it was a last minute idea it is perfectly understandable that people could not make it. I hope that no one got too frustrated about leaving Domo when we did and if you did I would like to apologize on behalf of the guild.
Also I know that we a not a hardcore raiding guild and we try to have a very relaxed and fun raid mentality. But if we are going to make a serious attempt on Rag, those who want to come really should invest in some farming time or some coin to get the items which have been discussed before. The Stam pots from the Blasted lands or if you have the revered rep with the Zan Tribe the Stam & Spirit pot from the vendor on Yomba Isle. And the greater fire prot pots of course are a must.
I know this may seem like alot, but I want to assume that if you are there in MC and with us for the Rag fight you want to see him downed.
If everyone pitches in and does their part it will just make it that much easier.
Molten Core Raiding
Moderators: Global Moderators, WoW =US= Moderators
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Aoiren
- Posts: 95
- Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2006 10:59 pm
Molten Core Raiding
Aoiren: 70 Priest (Enchanter/Tailor)
Raid Leader-"The tank .. needs full heals.. now!"
Aoiren - "I given him all I got, capn. I dunut have tha mana."
Raid Leader-"The tank .. needs full heals.. now!"
Aoiren - "I given him all I got, capn. I dunut have tha mana."
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lili
- Posts: 693
- Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 9:12 pm
- Location: The hospital
took the words right out of my mouth mike. We need to try and finish everything up to Domo on Friday night, which is totally doable for us. First two fights shouldn't even need to be explained, just hand out the healers and go. If you need a break put somebody on follow, no more 5 min breaks that turns into 30 min down times.
Babydolly Frost Mage 70
Pocky Protection Pally 70
I didn't fall from grace, I dove.
What do you mean my halo is lopsided, it's balanced perfectly on my horns.
Pocky Protection Pally 70
I didn't fall from grace, I dove.
What do you mean my halo is lopsided, it's balanced perfectly on my horns.
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Dualraid
- Posts: 68
- Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2006 11:22 pm
- Location: NYC
Ummm..this reminds me, becuase MC raid times are schedule at 7pm and 6pm, those are usually times that dinner is about to start. Dinner usually start at around 7 or 7:30 between those ranges, so i hope the guild that can understand my 20-30min afk. there are also times, but rarely will my parents let me bring dinner to my computer. but hey, Real life first. 
Parent's Tip: Follow the instructions on the Aspirin Bottle when feeling stressed from kids.
"Take 2 Aspirin"and "KEEP AWAY FROM CHILDREN"
"Take 2 Aspirin"and "KEEP AWAY FROM CHILDREN"
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lili
- Posts: 693
- Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 9:12 pm
- Location: The hospital
AFK's are unavoidable, just put yourself on follow and if you die just run back and get a summon. If you need to go afk for a BM or voiding just go follow a caster and put on the afk tag. As long as it's not 1/2 the raid at once, we can keep going though the trash. Try not to go AFK right as we get to a boss, but again as long as it's one person we should be fine as well. This gets hard when if comes to main tanks, but we should have wars that can pick up if main tank need a break on trash mobs, so no reason to stop on trash to wait. Boss okay, main tank should be around for that. Raid leading (Jack), we should be at the point where we can chain pull without directions, and that what I want to see, so that Jack or any other raid leader can go afk for breaks while we zoom though the trash. For bosses, the first 2 (and I would like to say even 3) should not need any kind of explaination except for the person who never done it and just explain to them what that class does, not go though the whole fight. If everybody has done it once, then hand out healers and go though as if it is trash mob. Let's put it this way, you should be able to do the fight and know where you should be or do without being able to hear on vent. We all get tired and after about 5 hours or and it gets hard to concentrated, so speed and agg management are the next things we need to work on, because we have the fights down and it should take us no time to set them up if everyone just remember what their class jobs are.
Babydolly Frost Mage 70
Pocky Protection Pally 70
I didn't fall from grace, I dove.
What do you mean my halo is lopsided, it's balanced perfectly on my horns.
Pocky Protection Pally 70
I didn't fall from grace, I dove.
What do you mean my halo is lopsided, it's balanced perfectly on my horns.
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Bladesinger
- Posts: 280
- Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 2:53 pm
- Location: If I were a snake I'd have bitten you.
1. Farm people! We can all farm something that will benefit ourselves or the guild, even if it's only the money to buy stuff.
1a. That being said, and with me ever being the Devil's Advocate, there are those of us who may not realistically be able to farm items during the week. There are those of us who are on a lot who are able to farm things. If you're one of those who can't be on much except for raids please send a message, in or out of game, to someone who may be able to help you get some things ready for the weekend. However, we expect you to do what you can. A great deal of frusteration has come from people freeloading off the generousity of others. You need to live up to your part too , even if it's small. If you're one of those who are able to farm, try getting an extra little bit more than you need just for yourself to help those who can't.
2. Wow, clearing to Domo in one night? That may still be a tall order for us. It's entirely reasonable to expect to get to and down Shazz in one evening but more than that is pushing it in my opinion. Right now it takes us too long to get to and down these bosses. At our current efficiency we're realistically looking at midnight or 1 am to clear all the way to Domo. I can't say I see many people being able to do a 6/7 to 12/1 raiding session.
We must keep the raids in manageable segments or we risk losing too many people to be able to down the bosses we're pushing so hard to down in the first place. Granted, my attention span is one of the shorter in the guild and after three hours I'm effectively good for nothing but sniping. I don't know about anyone else but I start getting very irritated and cranky if the raid goes past 11 or 12.
Still, clearing up to the lava packs after Shazz is a good place for us. We really don't need explanation for the Sulfuron and Golemag fights, they're just warm up at this point and should take no time to complete when we're fresh.
Ignoring attention span and looking at loot, clearing all the way up to Domo could be problematic too. A lot of us still need items that drop from the earlier bosses to be more effective during the Rag fight. What happens to the people who can't make it on Friday? Will they automatically now be unable to get the equipment they need to be at their best for the final fight?
*Nobody here can honestly say that there won't be grumbling and pissy players getting mad at those who don't have their most effective gear.* Removing some people's chances for getting an item or items they need to increase our time available for Rag could be just has harmful to the group as a whole as not fighting Rag by stratifying the Haves and Have Nots. We all need to be Haves before the guild will be most ready to take on Ragnaros.
To be honest, I don't think the current problem is not having enough time to learn the Rag fight. The problem is we still don't have the prior bosses down enough to get through them quickly. Right now what we really need to be doing is working on getting our group trained on the first 10 bosses until we've got them going with absolute minimal explanation and maxiumum effectiveness. Once we're at that point we'll have all the time in the world for Rag and we'll be a more cohesive unit as a whole.
2a. Doing a long night on an occasional Friday to give more time for Rag attempts is a good thing, just not every Friday. They will give us the time we need to learn the tactics for when we're all ready for it.
1a. That being said, and with me ever being the Devil's Advocate, there are those of us who may not realistically be able to farm items during the week. There are those of us who are on a lot who are able to farm things. If you're one of those who can't be on much except for raids please send a message, in or out of game, to someone who may be able to help you get some things ready for the weekend. However, we expect you to do what you can. A great deal of frusteration has come from people freeloading off the generousity of others. You need to live up to your part too , even if it's small. If you're one of those who are able to farm, try getting an extra little bit more than you need just for yourself to help those who can't.
2. Wow, clearing to Domo in one night? That may still be a tall order for us. It's entirely reasonable to expect to get to and down Shazz in one evening but more than that is pushing it in my opinion. Right now it takes us too long to get to and down these bosses. At our current efficiency we're realistically looking at midnight or 1 am to clear all the way to Domo. I can't say I see many people being able to do a 6/7 to 12/1 raiding session.
We must keep the raids in manageable segments or we risk losing too many people to be able to down the bosses we're pushing so hard to down in the first place. Granted, my attention span is one of the shorter in the guild and after three hours I'm effectively good for nothing but sniping. I don't know about anyone else but I start getting very irritated and cranky if the raid goes past 11 or 12.
Still, clearing up to the lava packs after Shazz is a good place for us. We really don't need explanation for the Sulfuron and Golemag fights, they're just warm up at this point and should take no time to complete when we're fresh.
Ignoring attention span and looking at loot, clearing all the way up to Domo could be problematic too. A lot of us still need items that drop from the earlier bosses to be more effective during the Rag fight. What happens to the people who can't make it on Friday? Will they automatically now be unable to get the equipment they need to be at their best for the final fight?
*Nobody here can honestly say that there won't be grumbling and pissy players getting mad at those who don't have their most effective gear.* Removing some people's chances for getting an item or items they need to increase our time available for Rag could be just has harmful to the group as a whole as not fighting Rag by stratifying the Haves and Have Nots. We all need to be Haves before the guild will be most ready to take on Ragnaros.
To be honest, I don't think the current problem is not having enough time to learn the Rag fight. The problem is we still don't have the prior bosses down enough to get through them quickly. Right now what we really need to be doing is working on getting our group trained on the first 10 bosses until we've got them going with absolute minimal explanation and maxiumum effectiveness. Once we're at that point we'll have all the time in the world for Rag and we'll be a more cohesive unit as a whole.
2a. Doing a long night on an occasional Friday to give more time for Rag attempts is a good thing, just not every Friday. They will give us the time we need to learn the tactics for when we're all ready for it.
Shattered Star since 1998
Gallarien of Lorien, Hunter/Woodsman
Gallarien of Lorien, Hunter/Woodsman
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QuantumDelta
- Posts: 1051
- Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 5:51 pm
- Location: Bristol, England.
10 Minutes for boss loot = bad.
20 Minutes standing around before a boss to make sure people are in place understanding varient 209824908096830958309583908 of tactic C = bad.
People not being at the instance on time to start = bad.
Clearing to domo in 1night is not hard if people turn up and you have one or two people who know what they're doing and the capability (maxedout) of the raid pulling.
Entrance -> Golemagg Down = 3hours for a guild like this if all the random AFKishness disappeared.
3 Hours?
Instead of 7-Midnight?
I can pull the raid through assuming the manpower is there to take down the bosses from start to finish in 3h no problem (read: manpower as in 30-35, not nessicarily 40, and, of the correct classes..).
Additionally;
Your problem as it stands at the moment isn't actually experience on the bosses, it's a, "Re-experience" syndrome.
Every time you change a tactic it has to be relearned people are not confident until it starts playing out.
Every time you tweak a group setup people need to readjust, it's bad.
Trundling through content to put it on farm you need to have as similar a set of variables each time as possible.
That's not always possible and the tactics for fights sometimes do have to be tweaked due to people in the raid (lack of class A surplus of class B).
That's also something that should really be addressed.
Again:
Further, doesn't mean longer.
Just means smoother, and more automatic.
Heck if you guys could put together a 40man raid from the start ready to start on the friday evening I could get you to rag in 2.5h based on your performance this friday.
People were talking about going back to MC after we killed Ony we were that fast in and out.
There's a lot I could change to help the speed of the runs, but setup for boss time and loot time are the most major things.
I really can't stress enough that:
If you are not bidding on loot you should be moving on to clear out more trash automatically.
Side note for the officers:
There's a reason we kept that job away from Ava as much as possible.
You can lose a healer or a DPS (most ideal) to go check a dkp site or a loot sheet, but you can't lose a main tank.
To address my controversial quote - you could consider swapping raid days.
Since some people never get to see certain bosses currently anyway.
It's clear though that week days would go ahead without Mel/Jack, though I think we proved on friday we can handle that.
Edit;
Before I kill somebody.
Healers should DEFINATELY DEFINATELY be picking up the intellect buff from BL not the stupid Stamina one.
And SoZ's are measured on the same sort of scale as FLASKS for most end game raiding guilds for a reason(EG: They're not used for anyone but the MTs on special fights where the MT HP has to be over a specific number because they're THAT awkward to rely on).
You should really not become to dependant on such strenous buffs to down Ragnaros.
/Yes Outland went overkill (a little bit) on buffs to kill Rag too.
20 Minutes standing around before a boss to make sure people are in place understanding varient 209824908096830958309583908 of tactic C = bad.
People not being at the instance on time to start = bad.
Clearing to domo in 1night is not hard if people turn up and you have one or two people who know what they're doing and the capability (maxedout) of the raid pulling.
Entrance -> Golemagg Down = 3hours for a guild like this if all the random AFKishness disappeared.
3 Hours?
Instead of 7-Midnight?
I can pull the raid through assuming the manpower is there to take down the bosses from start to finish in 3h no problem (read: manpower as in 30-35, not nessicarily 40, and, of the correct classes..).
Additionally;
Comments like these were flung around regularly on outland, thing is, there were similarly people who can't attend saturdays(Hello Khamali off the top of my head).Ignoring attention span and looking at loot, clearing all the way up to Domo could be problematic too. A lot of us still need items that drop from the earlier bosses to be more effective during the Rag fight. What happens to the people who can't make it on Friday? Will they automatically now be unable to get the equipment they need to be at their best for the final fight?
Your problem as it stands at the moment isn't actually experience on the bosses, it's a, "Re-experience" syndrome.
Every time you change a tactic it has to be relearned people are not confident until it starts playing out.
Every time you tweak a group setup people need to readjust, it's bad.
Trundling through content to put it on farm you need to have as similar a set of variables each time as possible.
That's not always possible and the tactics for fights sometimes do have to be tweaked due to people in the raid (lack of class A surplus of class B).
That's also something that should really be addressed.
Again:
Further, doesn't mean longer.
Just means smoother, and more automatic.
Heck if you guys could put together a 40man raid from the start ready to start on the friday evening I could get you to rag in 2.5h based on your performance this friday.
People were talking about going back to MC after we killed Ony we were that fast in and out.
There's a lot I could change to help the speed of the runs, but setup for boss time and loot time are the most major things.
I really can't stress enough that:
If you are not bidding on loot you should be moving on to clear out more trash automatically.
Side note for the officers:
There's a reason we kept that job away from Ava as much as possible.
You can lose a healer or a DPS (most ideal) to go check a dkp site or a loot sheet, but you can't lose a main tank.
To address my controversial quote - you could consider swapping raid days.
Since some people never get to see certain bosses currently anyway.
It's clear though that week days would go ahead without Mel/Jack, though I think we proved on friday we can handle that.
Edit;
Before I kill somebody.
Healers should DEFINATELY DEFINATELY be picking up the intellect buff from BL not the stupid Stamina one.
And SoZ's are measured on the same sort of scale as FLASKS for most end game raiding guilds for a reason(EG: They're not used for anyone but the MTs on special fights where the MT HP has to be over a specific number because they're THAT awkward to rely on).
You should really not become to dependant on such strenous buffs to down Ragnaros.
/Yes Outland went overkill (a little bit) on buffs to kill Rag too.
"Then, to hide their frailty, they hurt those who are kind.
I whisper farewell to this ugly world and dance nimbly with brilliant wings of red."
I whisper farewell to this ugly world and dance nimbly with brilliant wings of red."
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Brandonheat
- Posts: 263
- Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2006 9:09 pm
- Location: Brooklyn, New York
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Destinee
- Posts: 16
- Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 5:52 am
Doesn't the problem seem to be Garr?
At least on the few runs I have been on with you guys things go very smoothly until we hit Garr.
A) Takes a long time to set up the fight
B) Usually do not have the right classes to fight him.
If Garr can be done quickly, then clearing to Domo should not be very hard.
At least on the few runs I have been on with you guys things go very smoothly until we hit Garr.
A) Takes a long time to set up the fight
B) Usually do not have the right classes to fight him.
If Garr can be done quickly, then clearing to Domo should not be very hard.
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QuantumDelta
- Posts: 1051
- Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 5:51 pm
- Location: Bristol, England.
Yea Garr's the worst one out of the lot, that's cuz there's nine targets to tackle.
If Jack had a proper raid to take him down with it'd probably be pretty much automatic assignment and just rolling into Garr too.
Lava packs are the only mobs in the instance that aren't bosses that need any real consideration (meh@dogs) and considering positions have been established for them already you can far more effectively roll through them:
First warlock banishes front / left - depending on orientation of pack.
Second warlock banishes back / right - depending on orientation of pack.
Warriors already know which targets are of significance Weili or I smack /tm see no red names /pull.
Just like the rest of the trash.
No need for the marks as I showed you on friday.
Those marks only come in handy when things aren't controlled.
We have control.
Additionally dogpacks can be more or less rolled through with only the smallest pauses for mana as you saw on friday too, the next pack was marked before the first pack despawned and we trundled through them Mag down in record time.
Gehe was fast and dramaless too, when we simply didn't have the healing power for Garr we went onyxia, and steamrolled her, in such a fashion for the night that we had a great deal of time left for the rest of the instance.
Speed runs are not hard to setup in MC, you just gotta go with the flow.
If Jack had a proper raid to take him down with it'd probably be pretty much automatic assignment and just rolling into Garr too.
Lava packs are the only mobs in the instance that aren't bosses that need any real consideration (meh@dogs) and considering positions have been established for them already you can far more effectively roll through them:
First warlock banishes front / left - depending on orientation of pack.
Second warlock banishes back / right - depending on orientation of pack.
Warriors already know which targets are of significance Weili or I smack /tm see no red names /pull.
Just like the rest of the trash.
No need for the marks as I showed you on friday.
Those marks only come in handy when things aren't controlled.
We have control.
Additionally dogpacks can be more or less rolled through with only the smallest pauses for mana as you saw on friday too, the next pack was marked before the first pack despawned and we trundled through them Mag down in record time.
Gehe was fast and dramaless too, when we simply didn't have the healing power for Garr we went onyxia, and steamrolled her, in such a fashion for the night that we had a great deal of time left for the rest of the instance.
Speed runs are not hard to setup in MC, you just gotta go with the flow.
"Then, to hide their frailty, they hurt those who are kind.
I whisper farewell to this ugly world and dance nimbly with brilliant wings of red."
I whisper farewell to this ugly world and dance nimbly with brilliant wings of red."
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Aoiren
- Posts: 95
- Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2006 10:59 pm
Nice pace
On Saturday we used the steamroller method and it only took around 48 minutes to clear the trash up to Domo, which I thought was a nice good pace.
Aoiren: 70 Priest (Enchanter/Tailor)
Raid Leader-"The tank .. needs full heals.. now!"
Aoiren - "I given him all I got, capn. I dunut have tha mana."
Raid Leader-"The tank .. needs full heals.. now!"
Aoiren - "I given him all I got, capn. I dunut have tha mana."
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lili
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- Location: The hospital
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Trixster
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Dualraid
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- Location: NYC
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lili
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