About this loot stuff and this past weekend.

[Jophiel]

I've sturred up the proverbial hornet's nest. Maybe it was a good thing b/c some things need to be addressed, or maybe I'm just a greedy ass who just wants loot.

The whole reason why there is being a discussion over loot (alts vs. mains) is because I decided to roll on two pieces of giantstalker on my "alt." that lately I've been playing more than my "main".


Some people may recall I have passed on loot on both my hunter AND warrior. The hunter someone yelled out "he's an alt!" the warrior, it was tanking gear that would have benefited the guild to be on a MT rather than a dps warrior.

I'm sorry, I got tired of passing on loot. I've passed and passed and have never seen anything passed this way. I've been out rolled by other warrior alts.... nothing was said or done about it. Things just continued on their merry way. It seems that the only time it becomes a big deal is perhaps when an officer gets the short end of the chain.

This is why I'm seriously considering on pulling my hunter out of the guild. I don't want to be a problem for the guild and I don't think anyone wants my hunter to be a problem to the guild. I'll still have my warrior here and use it to attend raids. I'm not 100% certain I'm going to do this, but I'm definately leaning towards it.


This game is ment to be fun. Unfortuatenly loot, for most people regardless of what is said, seems to be a big big deal. I hope we can all get past the events of this weekend and continue how things were.

[Trixster]

As far as the loot discution that is comming up, this is not due to you.
If you check the forums about a month ago we had a dissuction on this with no resolution. what we are doing now is revisting this topic.

the reasons for this were brought up about a week ago, as far as this weekend went the loot system did what it was supose to do.

it counts attendance and items won to give a loot persentage. any items that have been won up to this point have been by that system and have been deemed totaly fair.

The thing we need to look at as a guild is the fact that we are at a point now where we will be moving to BWL we are needing to make sure that we are equiping our members to make this chage easy for all of us.

the loot discution is mostly a check up on how the system is working and if any players have an issues about it.

I hope this clears this up for you.

[Achara]

Hey Chris,

I still like the idea of us hunters getting together and having an open, civil discussion is a much better idea than you pulling Corat out.

We may never all agree but at least talking to each other is a good step to getting back to the family atmosphere. We probably should have done that earlier on Saturday.

Again, the idea would not be to force agreement or consensus, only discussion and openess.

~ Catherine

[Bladesinger]

Chris,

I understand your feelings. We've all passed on loot for the benefit of others in our class, or in your case, classes again and again. Hell, I made sure Mark got his 3/8 bonus GS bonus before I got any of the pieces myself. That was a lot of raids without gear to upgrade Vel. I'm sorry to hear about your losing out on gear [to an alt] which would have made Jophiel a more effective main tank. In my opinion that is wrong and your class members should have brought it up at that time.

I agree with Catherine, the hunters all need to sit down and have a good talk. One of the issues that helped contribute to this acute flare up is that as a class group the hunters are very close to eachother. We generally have constant and quality communication going between us both inside and outside the raids, especially when it comes to who needs what gear. Mark, Catherine, Bill, and myself give eachother a great deal of consideration when it comes time to roll on things. To have someone come in and not buy into that to the extent we do is a surprise and has been very upsetting.

I blame that on myself as much as anyone. As a class lead I should have made our dynamic clear to you when Corat first started running MC with us rather than assuming your outlook was the same as the rest of ours. That was my fault for assuming and not communicating clearly. I promise you that won't happen again.

Corat is a valuable member of any raid you bring him on. Please don't think we don't want him there. I do ask that you consider the grand scheme when it comes time for people to roll on gear. If you can honestly say that you will be on Corat everytime unless asked by a raid leader to participate with Jophiel PLEASE TELL US! Right now it looks and sounds to all the world like you're playing on Corat because it's easier to get gear for that toon.

When the guild moves on to new content will you be on Jophiel or Corat? Taking gear away from characters that will be the ones always brought into new raid content for short term gain or personal satisfaction is short sighted and in the long run is detrimental to the guild in that it will require us to make more runs to properly outfit those toons headed to the next content.

There's more to discuss about this but it's better left to a private venue.

[Aoiren]

I do not normally do this but let me be blunt. The loot was distributed and is being distributed according to the current rules. Everyone has an equal chance of winning an item with any character based on their attendence and how many items they have won. There is not a rule saying that an "alt" can not win an item over a "main".

There should not be anyone influencing another person's decision on if they should roll on an item. The call is made during the raid only on which class(es) can roll on an item.

The issue at the heart of the matter is what direction is the guild taking? Are we still going to MC and other instances for fun or are we becoming more of a hardcore raiding guild trying to gear-up as quickly as possible for harder and harder instances.

Considering recently we have not had a full enough of a raid to take down certain bosses in MC, I would say the latter is not realistic at this time. Perhaps it is time to re-evaulate the guild's objectives based on where we see ourselves going in the future. Any changes to the current loot system should be based on this and be agreed upon by everyone.

[Jophiel]

Phil, I'm glad you ASSUME that I'm on Corat to collect gear from you or any of the other hunters. In fact, I'm going about a different way to aquire gear away from the guild so I don't take your stuff. I want Corat to be geared to help the raid when need be.


Truth be told, I don't consider either Joph or Corat to be my main. Sure Jophiel was leveled first, but thats a moot point. I will bring whoever the raid needs more. You know as well as anyone that somtimes our raids have 8 warriors... why would I bring a 9th if this is the case? I'd bring Corat in this situation. If the raid is overstocked with hunters I'll bring Jophiel (ie this past run when we only had 2 warriors if I had not brought Jophiel). I'll swap toons as well depending on boss needs. This is exemplified by the Shazz fight where hunters do the dmg. In doing this I'm saving both my characters to one instance, disabling me from running pugs.

What I am saying is I will play both of my toons equally. In order for me to be effective and progress the guild (using your logic described in your other forum topic) I will need to gear up both characters. It's amazing that you are condemning people that come on "alts". Those of us with alts allow a wonderful dynamic in the guild, the dynamic of being able to adjust the raid balance as we see fit. It's a wonderful asset to have, especially in a guild that does not know who/what classes will be present for the weekend run.

Honestly, if I have to name an alt or main, I will pull one of my two characters out of the guild. I believe its a classification that does not need to exist, especially when someone swaps their characters out depending on fights to HELP the guild.



Finally, you blamed yourself for me not knowing how the hunter class worked in SSX. Why should the hunter class differ from any other class? Shouldn't they be the same? Shouldn't every class be dictated by a set of perameters, in this case the loot sheet? One person should be able to go from the warriors to the hunters to the priests to the warlocks and be able to understand how things are run. There should be no special favors or different rules for different classes. That is absurd.

[Zepol]

Hello All,
Ive just joined the guild and thought I should lend out my thoughts, you know speaking from outside of the box.
Ive been reading up on everything in the passed couple of threads, and this is what I summarized, you guys a great to play around with because of your close friend ships. So always go back to that. Dont loose focus on that because its what this guild stands for. As far as the loot it is greatly important to have great gear in the process to bring the guild on a better stance for end game instances.
I came from a guild that was using DKP system and it was the worst system ever designed just because I could never win anything for example we raided ZG one night and killed the panther boss that dropped a epic ring, I bet all of my DKP point (172) and somehow the GM rolled 173.coincidence I think not. Eventually everybody got geared up and I(with a few others) were left behind, and eventually we were not allowed to raid with our own guild because we werent geared up enough.
So if you come up with a real small and simple basic rule then everybody will fruit from this.
Simple rule and im just throwing this out there
Have your most active people play there mains, and get them geared up one epic at a time. This will take a lot of head work but if nobody wants to stand up to the plate ill be more then glad too take this task.
If you have people that wanted to play there main but was forced to play there alt to benefit the guilds success in the raid then this person should have a right to loot as long as the active people with there mains have had there chance in looting.

Now you ask on how you can take account of everybody who is active?
Simple start scheduling out raids and just have a simple roll call who attended and who was willing to attend but was not able to join the raid for whatever reason.
Then take account how reliable that person was during the full raid and blam you will come out with averages.
Then you will take account if that person got a Blue or Purple and make a note of it and the next dedicated person out of that class can role on it.

This is the original idea I had for my guild before it split up, so I was never able to test it out. But seeing that you guys are having such a big discussion over it, I decided to throw this idea to you guys, you dont have to go with it, and my feelings wont be hurt, its just another thought thrown on the table.

[Fireghoul]

Everything was done according to loot rules. If anything needs to be fixed, then its the loot rules. Its ridiculus to condemn Corat for taking GS pieces.

I have seen several instances where alts win over mains (including instances where I felt I was gipped). Many of us have been considerate, abides to the loot rules and haven't voiced anything concerning this. To condemn Corat is just laughable, because it shows that the complainers are more "gear oriented" then the ones that sit back and let it slide.

When I leveled and pvped from 51-60 on my rogue, I have learned that it was more fun then my mage. When I decided to make it my main character to play, I felt pressure concerning my decision and didn't want to be placed in the same situation Corat is. I have thought about pulling my rogue out, and I have talked to officers about this.

I have stayed, because I was told there was no difference between mains and alts. Just bring what you want.

*EDIT* If we were gear oriented, we would have stayed in KoA or joined a pure raiding guild instead of SSX. Me, Jophiel and Callania were the DKP leaders in KoA, we could have geared up our mains and alts easily. We joined SSX because of the FRIENDLY ATMOSPHERE and we don't want to lose that feeling.

~Iceghoul~

[sakuragi]

johpiel, i understand how u feel....i totally do....and what people don't realize is, once u start raiding it's all about having fun and loots ..dont' feel bad about taking a loot that you earn...u earned it with attandance...and that's the way the loot rules have been set up, to rewards those who show up, not those who don't...

people will get pissed when they don't get any gear on their main......
they will complain about it being their main and they should get the gear first...but what it comes down to it is, do they go to every raid....if they don't, then they shouldn't complain...people who feel that they should be getting first dibs on gear should be at all raids...if u can't make it, then don't complain...

what some people dont' realize is the loot system designed for people that show up for raids..not those that don't.....people who show up every weekend to raid are the ones that will end up getting the gears....regardless of if they are on their main or alts....

yes phil, i am calling you out....i know u don't have to be there all the time but u can't complain and be pissed when someone that has gone to every raid and out rolls u....there are people that work to help the raid out everyweekend.....is it right for u to take the epics from them when they have put in their time?? the whole point of percentage loots system is to reward those that SHOW UP FOR THE RAIDS.....i probably have been on more ssx mc runs then u phil....so don't tell me that i don't know shitz....u shouldn't be pissed, i should.....

yea, hunters have their own thing going on...i know...cause i usually let mark take the pieces he needs...except for one and that was my bad...and mark knows i made a mistake on that one...the beaststalker in lbrs......i have been on my hunter more then phil and i have never taken a thing..why, cause i figure mark would need it more...but i know as a fact if i asked mark if i could roll with him, he would definitely have no problems either....i play on my hunters as much as any hunter in ssx if not more....so dont' tell me that mains should have first dibs...if that's the case, all my toons would have been geared by ssx already...and everyone know that's not the case...

i was in ssx and did nothing but help the guild...anyone that knows me can't say otherwise...i brought any toon that would help...and if it benefitted my toon at the time, i would not hesitate to ask for it...i mite get it and i mite not....

out of all the times that i have helped the ssx guild out, what have i really gotten.... 1 ns bracer(boe), 1 arcanist bracer (boe) and 1 trinket (due to koa alliance)....so don't complain to me or anyone else in ssx about not getting 1 epic or what not...cause i should be first in line not anyone else in ssx...

there was votes on when raids should be and if they voted, they shouldn't complain about not being able to go.....if they go, they shouldn't always expect to get loot...cause that's just the way it is....

everyone shouldn't kid themselves when they say it's not about the loot....cause that's just a lie.....

yea i am not in ssx anymore but i know the workings of ssx enough that the new people don't know who i am...which is fine....

what people don't realize is, if u don't have people to do mc, u get no loot.....what do you think will happen when people stop showing up for mc raids....no one will get anymore t1 pieces regardless of if ur on a main or alt.....


what i dont' understand is why ssx are making people declaring their main and alt....why are u punishing those who has multiple alts that can help the guild....you have people that have 1 lvl 60 and thus they can only gear one toon, fine...but to say an alt can't roll over a main is wrong.....means ur punishing the people who can bring whatever the guild needs at the moment.....how many times have i switch toons during runs cause we need a different class....does that mean i should be punished for helping the guild out....

everyone in ssx should be ashamed of urself right now..why....cause u all made it into getting loot as priority and not having fun as priority.....which is what the guild is based off.....it's always about having fun first then loots....but seems like everyone is all about loots now and not having fun....and u know who u are......unless u want me to call them out....

anyways....i think this is long enough.....

[RagingDeath]

And that is one of the reasons why your not in the guild anymore, man too angry at something, who knows what. Cant you say something positive Steve geez. And has anyone even read all the posts? WERE NOT OUT TO CUT ANYONES !@#!@#!# HEADS OFF FOR TAKING LOOT! Listen to me, and listen well......... We are all friends here and are always thinking generously for the other friend in this guild. What we have is a minor flaw in the loot system. Chris, funny how you have all the answers for the blame game but what we need now is 0 critisism and some more ideas opinions for the loot system. Whether or not it needs to be changed, just give an idea. We obviously know by now that Phil is frustrated, not full of flaming hunter hatred, so please stop being mad at each other. Each class has a channel and before each raid starts should join it. Maybe discuss which pieces each char needs etc....... Just establish some communication. I myself being a DPS war have passed items for both Mel and Yuki and have won more than my fair share of gear as well. Its gonna happen eventually for everyones chars main or alt. Just have to use patience here and there. Like i said in the other post I like the current loot system we have. However we should announce our mains and make sure they are somewhat geared before our alts. It only helps us out more down the road for the bigger, tougher, badder instances. We are definetly all about rewarding the players with multiple toons that are the (utililty) toons for raids that we are asking to fill in when needed. To those people I bid a most worthy THANK YOU. Without you we couldnt run a successfull raid. Im sure if we hear the thoughts and opinions of others maybe we might not have to change the way its going now. I would like to hear alot more before a decision is made. Please lets hear it!

[sakuragi]

jerry....angry...hmmmm......ur right..that's why i ain't in ssx guild anymore....i left....i got invited but decline ....so what you guys can't stand is a opinion from someone outside of ur guild....then fine....u took it the wrong way bro..u did...and u know what, that serves me right for offering an opinion....

what a waste of my freaking time...

[Bladesinger]

I'm sorry, I got tired of passing on loot. I've passed and passed and have never seen anything passed this way. I've been out rolled by other warrior alts.... nothing was said or done about it. Things just continued on their merry way. It seems that the only time it becomes a big deal is perhaps when an officer gets the short end of the chain.

Chris,

Have someone read that to you then go back and read the underlined portion carfully again. It's hard to think anything but make the assumption this was motiviated by greed after reading that statement.

Do I think you're an asshat? Not at all. I actually think you're quite a generous and beneficial member of this guild. I do think your choices to roll on loot could have been better but that's all.

**Ironically I wouldn't have won either of the pieces that showed up this run. It's the principle of the matter and the fact that there was no obvious resolution to the prior main/alt loot issue. I had no idea we had come to any consensus prior to this past weekend on the main/alt loot issue.**

**Another ironic thing is when the piece dropped on Saturday night the only thing I said after others had commented was "Mel, give it to the proper person."**

Also, please take a day and calm down then go back and re-read what I wrote. I said that I am sorry you've been ripped off by other players and I understand your sentiments. Problems on your warrior should have been brought up by your class members when they arose and that a DPS warrior and/or an alt should not have rolled on items better suited for a Prot warrior.

As far as my not communicating the dynamic among the hunters to you goes, no not every class works exactly the same within the group. We're all acting under the umbrella of the general loot rules, but as a whole the hunter mains work things out amongst ourselves within the overall framework of percentage. We're all quite close and tend to pass off to others based on who needs what the most at that time. Again, I apologize for not communicating that to you. I blame a portion of this situation on my lack of communication.

Yes, I 100% agree that you Chris were completely within your rights to roll on those pieces. You won them fairly and within the rules. That's not my problem. Honestly, my problem has to do with the loot rules themselves and a difference in opinion on when to roll and when not to roll on loot.


Steve,

Get off your horse. I've been to every single raid I have been home to make. If I'm not at a raid it's because I'm not able to get to my computer for said raids. I have a job that requires work during some weekends and I also try to have a modicum of a life outside of the game.

I also think it somewhat ironic that you claim to have been on more raids with Mirra than I have been on with Vel. I know I've been on the majority of the raids we've done on our own. I also know I've only been on those raids with Velorraena. I can't remember but maybe two or three raids where Mirra's been there. Give me a break!

Read the above statement about how I wasn't the one who would have received the loot this run. It's not greed. If it were I'd be one piece from the full set, if not in the full set already. As it stands I've passed or outright given away more gear than I've won in deference to other people playing my class because they would get more benefit from it than I. Perhaps I'm wrong for wanting every hunter MAIN in the group to be the most effective it can be. Perhaps I'm wrong for thinking about my colleagues every time an item comes up to roll on.

I'm bringing this issue up time and again because I think the system is broken and needs to be fixed.

Perhaps my outlook is a little too far sighted and I'm thinking too much about which characters are most likely to be used in future content. Maybe I'm too focused on getting those toons the gear they need so the guild can go in the directions I see people already talking about. "BWL anyone?"


I think it would do all of us good to go back and read just how many times every single one of us has said that it is different to bring an alt because the raid leader asks a player to bring it vs. bringing an alt because one is bored with their main.


I feel the need to blatantly defend myself here. Chris, you were not asked to bring Corat to the Baron and Shazz fights. I recall clearly you saying "I'm going to get on Corat because we don't need another useless warrior for these fights when ranged DPS is more important." In this very specific case it was your choice to bring in a character *other than the one the raid leader asked you to bring in at the beginning of the raid*. "Useless" or not that was your choice to go against what the raid leader asked and in my opinion should disqualify anyone from rolling on loot for those bosses.

Yet you said above that there were two warriors in the raid without Jophiel. TWO. That's hardly a number that gives the impression of a raid group being overloaded on warriors. If we needed you on Jophiel to make it through the trash mobs how in the world could you think we couldn't use you more on Jophiel during the boss fights?

That Chris, is the only problem in this whole deal I have specifically and wholly with you. How many times did Shazz get loose and go on a rampage before the other warrior in the raid was able to get a handle on it? How many warriors do we usually have active during that fight? One per group? How many warriors in that specific raid have as much experience at tanking and as much tanking gear as you? One, Magdalena. In my opinion you abandoned your post and that's not what I consider quality playing.

The moral of this post? Some miscommunication led to what I feel were choices made in poor taste even though they were well within the rules. Furthermore I believe the loot rules are in need of amendment. I'd like to point out here that in no way shape or form do I feel you Chris are a bad person or even particularly greedy. I think you've made some very positive contributions to this guild and we all benefit from having you here. <-as said in my first post.

[ScarletRahl]

First of all I would like to say, We are family and we are not always going to see eye to eye. It sounds like one BIG misunderstanding that needs to be talked about when everyone is calmed down ...... I know I have 4 60's that I will bring in and play whatever is need but my favorite is my priest. There are times I could play something else just cuase i need a change. If I am on one of my other toons I will usally pass unless it is not needed by them. I feel we do need to firgure out how to settle this but the main things it is just a game. The looting system has worked the best that it can all systems have flaws.

[requiemdreamer]

Having been a member of SSX for almost a couple of years now I would like to think that I know the majority of our members quite well, and that I also know the measure of their quality. I find it hard to believe that there would be any one of us as ready to change characters for such selfish reasons as have been stated in this thread as well as others. I have been taking a break for a while but I remember a time when, not too long ago, this same discussion took place and it saddens me to see that we've come back to it.

Having been present when the SSX-LootingRules were decided upon, I'll just comment on my impression of what was trying to be accomplished with these rules.
First, I was under the impression that members were to be awarded for attendance by having their percentage lowered. That each percentage is tagged to a "player," not a character. How someone chooses to use their earned percentage is up to that person. The underlying slogans of our guild (i.e. play to have fun, play whichever character you want, etc.) indicate that there should be no need to concider any character an alt, main, or whichever.

Just my opinion:
Every guild member should be allowed to bring any character they wish to a raid. If the raid is short on a particular class and someone in the raid has another character that can fill that class, it can only be hoped that they will help out the guild, but they should NOT feel pressured by any means. If they don't want to, that is their prerogative.
If someone is on a character that they play less often and an epic item drops that they want, there should be no reason that they cannot roll on it providing that their class is eligible and they have a low enough percentage. The idea is that the percentage is there to safe-guard againt people rolling on too many items without having attended an appropriate number of raids. Always take into consider what can benefit the guild. We can only ask for generosity, not demand it.

Our whole system is based off of generosity and self-moderation. Once we start trying to prevent too many things, we limit the way people can play, and thus limit the fun.



As an extra note, I'll just suggest that people review their posts before they submit them and be careful of instigation whether it be intentional or not.

[Rlyan]

First off, when claiming to make a general statement, don't "call people out" by their names. It's tacky, and it starts fights. Fights waste my time. I don't want to read nasty comments about one another when I'm on the forums.

If we're going to start name calling, get each other's MSN or AIM screen names. I'm here to read about constructive things. That isn't to say that what is being said here is not constructive. I feel that it is. Fights can be constructive if it enables people to move on and heal. But please don't shed ugliness into the forums. It sometimes makes people feel they have to choose sides, and I like to believe we're all on the same side. It seems to me this thread is dangerously close to a brawl.

Taking Thumper's advice can sometimes be the best thing to do.

[Jophiel]

Edited By Joph... I didn't feel this was the place to say what I wanted to. Just some things phil said about me abandoning my duty are false as are particulars about the events he transcribed. I don't want to fuel the fire so I won't. This thread isn't about Phil and I. If Phil has problems with me, he should take it up with me directly instead of slandering my name on the forum.

I do wish that phil would not treat me like a little kid and would use a little more professionalism in his posts. That is all I will say regarding him publicly.

[Jophiel]

We need to remember, we are a family. That's why I am in this guild, soly because of the friendships and relationships forged. Gear is that other thing that unfortunately is part of the game.

We need to remember what we stand for. No matter how tense the discussion, no matter what maybe said about one another, we are still in the same guild and are the same family.

I do think we need to respect eachother more, but we will be ok. It seems that all guilds have this type of discussion once in their lives. Our determination will keep us strong and help us pull through. We will emerge better because of it. All of you guys, and I mean all of you, are awesome, I love spending time on vent with you and you make the game worth playing!!

[Brandonheat]

As much as I don't want to say it, but it kinda feels like this is being brought up because of lost loot. There has been countless occasions where the so called alts have won items over mains.

While I can understand it sucked to not get loot, but you can't let the sting clouded your judgment.

[Inquisitor]

Do not let what happened to the euro guild happen here. Everyone should go read all those posts, all that acrimony, the disband, the spiral down, the slow (and maybe unsuccessful) climb back out. Alot of friendships damaged over the course of their quest for loot. Some friendships damaged beyond repair.

Sakuragi: please don't post on this subject any more. The people who are here have to deal with it. Let them.

[Eveangel]

okay just figure ill put in my two cents here for those of you who care to read...I dont like this alt and main thing. why cant people just play the character they want to play. for people who have really geared up characters and dont possibly need anything from MC why cant they bring their alts in and get geared up? that way when we do go go BWL or other places we have more option in who is available to bring. people should be awarded for attendance. people who doesnt show up doesnt deserve loot. its not fair if joph goes on all the mc raid and needs nothing on his warrior but comes on his hunter and is not allowed to roll on something. I can see later on in BWL we can use either of his character because he would be on. I feel that's a big problem here is that people like jack and mel and jyh who has these really pimped out mains cant bring their alt that they would also like to get geared up. granted maybe we would lose a really good MT and really good healing but it would benefit in the long run. people play because they are themselves and not their character. if we are so into what people's character are then why do we bother learning everybodies name? if we put character to people then we lose sense of what the other person is. we are a family here ..we're not a hunter or a mage or a warrior. we are chris, liz, jack, phil, weili...

the other thing is i dont think you guys should take what sakuragi said offensively. he has been in SSX for a long time and you guys know that. he understnad the way the guild run better then a lot of the new members in here. granted maybe he came across a little harsh with swears (which SSX doesnt stand for) but we cant say what he said was wrong.

a lot of guild go through this phase and weather they make it through determines how strong they are. do we want to become like those other guilds? i like to think not. I would like to think that because we are such a social and family-like guild that we wouldnt let loot come between us.

My proposal is to allow the officers to come up with a different loot rule. notice i didnt say better because there is no perfect loot rule. the perfect loot rule is if you get everything and face it it doesnt happen. so lets grow up and stop being like little bickering kids and return to the way we once were..

damn it late for class now gotta eat my PB&J sandwich fast

[Achara]

I just want to reveal one more thing, that might show where some of the turmoil and confusion among those who play hunters came from.

Two weekends ago, before MC, myself and another person playing a hunter were told point blank that the toon, Corat, would not be able to roll on Giantstalker pieces that hunter mains needed. The person who said this was an officer and not Phil or Mark. I realize now that must have been a mistake on his part - it happens, we're all human.

Given that, I was already under the impression that alts and mains were treated differently for set pieces. I was pretty shocked when the GS pants went to Corat.

I think we really need to make sure that all the officers are on the same page about whatever rules are in place.

~ Catherine

***** edit: Just to clarify, I posted this so people know there were layers and layers to the confusion that occured. Given that, we need to cut everyone some slack and move on from specific incidents. The important part is just stoping the confusion from happening again.

[Magdalena]

Fair warning to all... any further tantrums in the forums or slanders at one another will be locked. You are all adults, act like it.

If it doesn't concern you and you don't have something positive to say, don't say anything.

Also make sure before you start accusing people of one thing or another, these discussions are usually best had over vent as when tempers start to get up people tend to read more into typed chat as well as say more they're going to regret later. If you have something to say, say it to the person not the character.

Thank you to those trying to keep this on a better track.