Loot, need and greed

[Inquisitor]

I thought it was time to post some guidelines/thoughts on loot in game, and discuss it so we can come up with a fair set of "rules" to keep peoples expectations clear.

I think about loot in the kinship in this way:

Rules per instance should be agreed on at the start, if we are going into an area for a certain reason (Miralise needs a Ferchu) that should be crystal clear. Overcommunicate your expecations and make sure people agree with them. These are small groups, that shouldn't be that hard

Rolling on crafting items: Generally, I think its polite to only roll need for the character who can use the crafting items that are in the instance, everything else is a greed roll. If we decide at the start of a particular instance that we want to outfit an alt, we need to know we're doing that from the get go, otherwise, only roll "Need" for the character you are playing.

Rolling for gear: Need should be a legit need, meaning its better than what you are currently wearing and appropriate to your class. If there is any question whether it is better, roll "Greed" and hope. If you get an item that is bind on equip, just double check it wasn't a missed roll on the part of someone who actually needed it. Just be polite, look at who you are with, and make sure you actually need it.

Rolling for cash: Always roll greed if you are just rolling for cash, thaqt's kinda the definition. We have a little bit of money in a guild bank, and probably will expand it to help defary armor repair costs, etc, so if you are really broke form doing stuff with us, we can probably work something out

I think the best way to deal with any of this is to

1) Overcommunicate, make sure people know what you need/want from drops before the instance starts, the worst time to have an argument is on the top floor at the last boss.

2) Give people as much benefit of the doubt as possible. They may actually need something, you may have missed the fact that it was a greed roll, or they may not have heard (or understood) you say something it over voice comms.

3) When in doubt, use /f rather than voice chat so its crystal clear. Overcommunicate.

I have a long list of "rules" we used for large instances in another game that more narrowly defined need/greed that worked pretty well without going all DKP on folks, but these 6 mans should really be able to be handled without employing that.

Thoughts? This is a discussion, not an edict

[Syro]

I am not into hard rules or legalism (let's have some fun!), but I would add a few thoughts/suggestions:

Instances are a team effort. When running with kin, we should think about our team of friends and what is best for SSX (rather than our own individual toon or toons). I know that I cannot persuade peeps to be selfless or kin-minded, but it's a nice philosophy for running in groups, especially with SSX friends!

If we have been running with the same group of people for multiple instances and have already received numerous gear upgrades for own toon, then we should be considerate of those people who have not "needed" or received an item when they do communicate that they need an item. It's not required that everybody receive something from multiple runs, but it's nice to show a little consideration for our friends, which in turn goes a long way towards goodwill and fun fellowship.

When receiving a Bind on Equip item from a boss, we should make sure that no one else needs it before we bind it. If a person or group of people communicate that they need an item, let's be considerate.

Rolls. Just because we won a roll, does it mean that we should keep the item? Should we automatically feel a sense of entitlement? Will we let random chance determine the quality of our friendship and grouping experience in relation to item drops? I hope not!

Oh, last thing. Have I suggested that we be considerate of our SSX friends yet? It's a little thing, but it does so much for relationships!

Frankly, rules are only for a few individuals who are not community-minded and to help set expectations for new folks. I think most peeps in SSX are truly generous and considerate folks. We are a great group of friends!

[firedancer]

i know i am in a EU kin (not SSX), and so i may not really legit to add to the discussions. but as the kin is very SSX like concerning friendship and sharing items, here is a short summary of my opinion on the loot system.

(i) first i really dont like that they adapted the wow loot system with need/greed (just another addition to the wow'ness ).

(ii) so addapt the old system with only pressing need/pass.

(iii) kin helps out anyway in a lot of crafting materials, so it should not really matter who gets crafting items. so my expectation in a kin run is that no one rolls on crafting items and then sells them on AH.

(iv) armor all need. if someone can really use it, trade it with each other in a fighting break. (very nice to get to know ppl in a pick up group: greedy versus possible fellow kin's are quickly separated

(v) bosses allways with master loot to distribute the boe items fair. mistakes are too quickly made with these items, and can only be avoided with master loot. (only problem what happens if the boss dies, but the master looter is dead too and cant loot, and cant get back (dead ministrel and respawns). i see some serious problems there coming).

[Inquisitor]

Seems sensible Syro, we should probably jot these down in a coherent form once everyone has had a chance to sound off and sticky them as "Da Rules"

Faernath, Sidewinder, Eli, et al., you have anything to add?

[Syro]

When receiving a Bind on Equip item from a boss, we should make sure that no one else needs it before we bind it. If a person or group of people communicate that they need an item, let's be considerate.

I really meant any mob rather than a "Boss." Some really nice BoE items drop from random mobs and chests but they are about as rare as legendary drops.

[El Oso]

Not having any previous experience with an MMO, I'm still slightly befuddled by the need/greed/roll feature. It seems clunky- "need" is so subjective... With that said, regardless of whatever roll system they have in place, I think it comes down to group dynamic. We've said going into a lot of runs that we're all going to roll "greed" and this seems to have worked well for us. But we're all in it together, well placed "pass" rolls are called for sometimes as well... Whatever the dice say, I don't think that rolls should be the be-all-end-all when it comes to loot: "need" should be defined as the person in the group who could most directly benefit from the item.

As for feeding items to one's alts- I agree 100% with what Arrack said above. I think it's great that people have alts in the kinship. Crafting proficiencies can be leveled up quickly & that'll potentially benefit all of us... But I think alts should be checked at the door if other members of the fellowship need the items for the char they're currently playing.

When it comes to instance items... something like a key or a brazier flint should go to an indispensable party member. We almost never quest together without our lovely minstrel (I guess that's you, Bo ) so it'd probably make sense for items of that nature to go to the resident minstrel...

Steadfast rules can't *always* apply (I have an ongoing debate with my GF over whether festivus is an allowable Scrabble word) and there are going to be instances where we're helping someone get a specific item or outfit their alt... But in general I think it would be safe to have a fellowship guideline of "greed" unless you really "need."


When a group is out there questing together, they're acting as a team. They are (hopefully) looking out for each other as well as relying on each other for kills, heals and the ability to take on an area that none of the individuals could solo. If we just wanted the latter, we could run with pub groups all the time. But we don't, we joined SSX, which offers more. It's a friendship, and there's no place for greed in a friendship. (the characteristic, not the roll...)


So, basically, I'm chiming in to agree with what was already said, and well said for that matter...
"greed" unless you really need, need being defined as an upgrade/crafting for your current char.

[sidewinder]

Lets just play the game. items are just items.
if anything unique + comes out let everyone have a turn at having one.
As friends we look after each other first.
Be considerate and have fun

by now everyone here should know what classes need the most.
If you dont here are my priorities.
Champ 1st is strenght, vitality and any big weapons.
2nd agility + fate
3rd is will.

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

As friends we look after each other first.
Be considerate and have fun

by now everyone here should know what classes need the most.
if you dont here are my priorities.

minstrel 1st is to take care of the singing voice....i've found barliman's best to be an excellent salve for voice-affecting maladies...

2nd is taking care of ones instrument (lute in my case). a soaking in a flagon of red wine will restore strings to like-new, and a good wipedown with some blind troll stout will remove most dings and scratches you'll pick up in normal combat situations (though it sometimes removes some of the original finish as well).

3rd as a provider of morale, it's important for the minstrel to keep up his own morale. a trough of moor boar beer works wonders.

so i usually roll "need" on these items (as well as blagrove's brown, bombur's beard lager, dragons breath ale, wooly foot stout, and of course toads tongue ale).

[Inquisitor]

Sarcasm aside, there is nothing preventing folks from restating these at the start of a long instance

[Syro]

It sounds like someone "needs" more libations!