Bogbereth Raid Feedback :)

[Syro]

Hey everyone! Great job with the Bogbereth raid last night. It was awesome fun. I thought we performed fantastically as a large team of SSX for the very first time!!! And it was wicked cool to see so many SSX peeps in one place! Made me darn proud!

Wulfy, I am sorry that you couldn't stay to finish it with us. And Jeredoc, I am sorry that you couldn't get credit for it.

Some General Reflections

For raids, we need to keep a balance on time commitments like we did last night. Doing the pre-req stuff for a few peeps while we gather is cool, and those who need pre-req stuff really need to get to the pre-req location ASAP. Please keep in mind that we have 12+ other people who are waiting on you. And if we do the pre-req stuff at the beginning for peeps, we really cannot do it again for late arrivals. We lost one because we took too long doing the pre-req stuff, and she waited from the very beginning for everyone to arrive.

Voice chat was very chaotic in the beginning. I suggest that we reserve voice chat for people leading and / or organizing the raid. Helpful comments are best served as text in /ra (raid chat). We have a whole host of knowledgeable and highly skilled players, but too many peeps talking at once makes for poor communication. This all cleared up when we started fighting the BIG Spider so kudos to you guys (and gal)! We have two voice servers that can be available for the leaders in the future so they can have a separate voice chat if needed, but it is so much more helpful to everyone if we can all hear what is being discussed as a raid team.

There were no major boss loots on the Bogbereth raid; but on future loots, we should probably do a Master Loot policy for a Boss (peeps can still roll on items and everyone can have time to look at the items instead making hasty "need" or "pass" decisions). I am not a big fan of random chance determining who gets what, and I am even less interested in DKP or Raid Point models. That said, I am cool with whatever loot policy we choose as a kin for Boss loots, but I prefer to see loot distributed in way that it will benefit the kin first, individual toons second, and me last!

Overall, you peeps rock! Thanks for making our grand adventure in Himbar a huge success. We still have a long journey ahead of us that will be filled with fun, confusion, misadventure, and success. Are you ready for more action?

Please add your thoughts to this thread and enhance my goofy raid reflections! :puke:

Thanks!

[Buzz]

Last night was a lot of fun. I've only gotten to group with SSX members a few times (other than Bo, but he really doesn't count...whoops, did I just bash a healer? ), so I really enjoyed just getting a chance to get together with everyone. What a great group!

As far as raids in general are concerned, I agree with most of what you stated Syro, but last night was a little unusual in my limited raiding experience in that it was unplanned. If a raid isn't planned in advance, it's unrealistic for us to expect each other to be fully prepared. I hadn't even explored that far north in Angmar prior to last night, so I didn't have any of the quests when I logged on (thanks again to everyone for helping with the pre-recs by the way ).

All-in-all, last night was lots of fun. We'll get better at organizing these events as time goes on.

Good work to everyone who was there!

[Syro]

If a raid isn't planned in advance, it's unrealistic for us to expect each other to be fully prepared.

I'm no realist. I'm an idealist with real expectations!

Great stuff, Fjornin! Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

[Ozgafen]

You want more goofy? Well here ya go..

I know I wasnt at the raid the other night but I did want to share my experience with raiding in another MMORPG, World of Warcraft. I played WoW from the initial release date until a little over a year ago. In that time I joined a guild run by friends of mine called SECURITY on the Arthas server, progressed my main character (night elf rogue) to level 60 and participated in many (50+) 40 person end-game raids.

Every Friday and Saturday night we would run either the Onyxia or Molten Core instances, which at the time before the expansion and other content releases were the only end-game raids available. WoW did not have built-in voice chat so we had to use a separate program for voice during raids. One common practice was to mute everyones voice capabilities except for those running the raid. For a 40 person group there were only 3 people that could talk during the raid and everyone else was limited to typing messages in the in-game chat window. The types chat was restricted to crucial game related issues however since even having 37 people all typing away at the same time got to be chaotic. WoW let you have the ability to send messages to other players in your individual group which is where most of the goofing around took place.

SECURITY was one of the top 10 raiding guilds on our server, out of about 40 that participated in the end-game content. There were other guilds with far more restrictive methods for vetting players and distributing loot to participants. We chose to go with a simplified, attendance based system that emphasized weekly participation by rewarding those that attended raids more often with first choice of drops for their class. Now, Shattered Star Exiles is by no means needing this type of system and I am not proposing implementing anything at this time but it is possible to create a system that benefits everyone without leaving behind those that cant make it every night. Master Looting is essential to making everyone happy. One person in control of the high-end loot items makes it a lot easier to avoid miscommunication and improperly distributed swag.

Another key element of SECURITYs raiding mentality was that any major, time expanding conversations on how the raid should have been run differently took place after the raid was finished and in a very respectful manner. With 40 people to look after the raid leaders have a lot riding on their shoulders and it is not fair to them to hound them constantly with what would work better during the raid. Keeping notes and discussing/posting your thoughts afterwards usually works better. In the early stages of learning how the raids work, ongoing conversations should take place but once a plan is put in motion, stick with it till the bitter or fruitful end.

When it came to getting everyones prerequisites taken care of for a given raid it was up to those who were lacking the proper pre-quests to organize a group and complete the quests a few nights before the raid they are intending on participating in. The rest of the guild had to allow time for this and be willing to participate in helping those that need it if they want to put together a decent group of players for the raids they were wanting to run.

It is very difficult to balance fun with progression in the end-game scenario. Everyone wants to have fun but some also want to take their characters to as high a point as possible, and Im guilty on both counts. All the rules change when it comes to 10+ person raids however. Raids can still be fun but they have to be organized. It is just a game but when you work with 39 other people for 4 hours every Saturday night for weeks on end and you finally take down Ragnoros (Molten Cores end-boss) for the first time it does feel pretty good. The type of fun you have changes when you compare the everyday questing and adventuring situations to the end-game raiding goals. After a while the same raid over and over again begins to feel like farming for items but it is still fun to watch others in your guild/kinship achieve their goals even after you have completed all of your own goals yourself. Besides it can be REALLY fun watching people get knocked around just like you did the first few times you attempted the same event. *evil grin*

[Jeredoc]

I don't feel bad about not getting credit at all. I was late to the show and only arrived just as people were wrapping up the prereqs, so I didn't have any expectation of getting credit for that run.

I only feel bad that while working on the prereq on the way to Bogbereth I didn't see everyone's crys for me to back off. I was getting the little spiders to come out of the cocoons like I was instructed to by Dwar but the critters always aggro'd and ran after someone else before I had a chance to get a hit on them. So when I saw a room full of them already hatched I just got excited.

It was a pretty cool experience and for a raid seemed pretty short, and easily re-doable. That's probably why she doesn't drop cool stuff, since she is so accessible its would be tempting for groups to farm her all day long.

[dwar]

Had a good time doing the bogbereth raid, which was a nice easy raid for us to start with. I assume the Helegrod raids are 24 person raids but i'm not positive on this. If it is a 24 person raid we might need to talk to another guild about joining forces a night or two. That is maybe after we give it a few tries to see how it goes.

Here are a couple links for people that don't have the Helegrod quests and would like to get them.

http://lotro.allakhazam.com/cluster/que ... tarea=1771

http://www.lotroquests.com/Northern-Bru ... rce-2.html

http://lotro.mmodb.com/quests/startingzone-helegrod/

If and when we start raiding by scheduling dates/times we plan to raid, it would be nice for everyone to have all the quests before the time the raid is planned. If for some reason somebody doesn't have all the quests i'm sure we'll have to do Helegrod several times before completing any of them, but this shouldn't have any effect on the start time of the raid.

I've been a member of raid guilds in EQ1 and EQ2 and I really enjoy the raiding aspect of most of the games i've played as long as it doesn't seem like it's turning into another job. Fun should be the number one priority!! I agree with Syro about not wanting a DKP system. Loot always ends up causing problems in these games and I hope it doesn't in this one. It's all about fun and chatting with people for me.

I guess we'll have to see how some of the raids go in the future and can come up with maybe a few guideline's if problems come up in the raids such as communication, conjunctions, afk's and so forth. Everyone in the guild i've played with seem to be mature and I think we'll all have fun trying out the current raids in the game and future raids. And we can all enjoy reading some of the adventure stories about our blunders afterwards.

[Buzz]

...participated in many (50+) 40 person end-game raids.

Oh noes, a hardcore raider! Back, I say...back to the scorching depths of hell from whence you came!

But seriously, thanks for sharing your experiences Oz. I, too, did some raiding in WoW (although nowhere near the amount you did), but I have to say, after the first few of times in MC, I really didn't enjoy it much. Raiding just became following a script on how to defeat each of the bosses. When the guild started expecting everyone to raid several times a week (and spend the many hours required to gather reagents for potions and enchants), that was it for me. I left and joined a smaller guild that was devoted more to their lives outside the game and just having fun. Constant raiding is boring and sucks the fun out of the game and the life out of a guild. I'm interested in seeing as much of the game content as possible, but not at the expense of every Saturday night for six months straight.

Fun should be the number one priority!! I agree with Syro about not wanting a DKP system. Loot always ends up causing problems in these games and I hope it doesn't in this one. It's all about fun and chatting with people for me.

Exactly! Well said Dwar. I think this group is mature enough to not care too much about loot. The only drama here seems to be when someone (not naming names!) jumps off a cliff to their ultimate doom.

[Syro]

You want more goofy? Well here ya go..

You goof!

No worries, Oz. I am the retired general of a 1000+ person army in a game that I will no longer mention. And I was the insane guy who led 50-72 man raids nearly every night in that other game. Was fun at the time, but I have no desire to do that anymore.

Thanks for the feedback!

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

I think this group is mature enough...

don't call me mature.

[Syro]

So when I saw a room full of them already hatched I just got excited.

No worries. It was funny!!! I told them that I was going to let you die.

[Syro]

It's all about fun and chatting with people for me.

Amen!

And good info. Thanks, Dwar.

[Syro]

When the guild started expecting everyone to raid several times a week (and spend the many hours required to gather reagents for potions and enchants), that was it for me.

What? I gave peeps 2 nights a week off to do whatever they needed to do for their toons so they could get back to raiding. Thursday and Sunday night was your time. Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Friday, and all day Saturday was MINE!!!! *evil roar*

[Syro]

I think this group is mature enough...

don't call me mature.

I think he meant - physically mature, not mentally or emotionally.

[Ozgafen]

Oh noes, a hardcore raider! Back, I say...back to the scorching depths of hell from whence you came!

Nonononononononononono, not me! I merely participated in the raids not run them, do I look that crazy to you?

Actually the end-game raids did become very routine with the only real excitement coming from when someone accidentally agros a mob before we were ready. The guild was a raid heavy guild very early in WoW's lifespan and since they were RL friends of mine I got swept up in the excitement. Once it started feeling like work and not hanging out with friends I dropped the game completely.

The reason repetitive raids exist in the end-game is to keep players coming back after they have achieved all their goals up to the level cap and to give the devs more time to release new content. One way to solve this problem as a player is to play alts and go through other parts of the game you may have missed the first time around. I am glad to see so many in the kinship playing and paying attention to their alts in this game. My guild in WoW actually made it difficult to progress an alt since they wanted to become a premier raiding guild on their server. They achieved their goal but it was a hollow victory to me. They didn't even let alts in the guild unless they were level 50+ and had completed most of the end-game raid pre-reqs. That wasn't for me so I left.

[Inquisitor]

Sounds like I missed a hoot. Sounds like great fun

Yeah, I'd personally rather avoid DKP style loot distribution as well

[Buzz]

I think this group is mature enough...

don't call me mature.

I think he meant - physically mature, not mentally or emotionally.

Actually, I meant all three. I just didn't intend for the last two to be applied to Laz. I assumed he would know that I would never refer to him in such a derogatory fashion.

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Actually, I meant all three. I just didn't intend for the last two to be applied to Laz.

as i'm sure nobody intended for the first one to be applied to buzz...

[Buzz]

Actually, I meant all three. I just didn't intend for the last two to be applied to Laz.

as i'm sure nobody intended for the first one to be applied to buzz...

If you're referring to my belly, then yes, I continue to mature. It's all of the Barliman's Best someone keeps mailing me.

[Wulfsmark]

It's okay that I missed the raid... really its okay... I am way cool with that I swear!!!

Okay, no really.... I am glad that you guys had fun... hopefully by the time I get to raid with you all that all of the bugs will be worked out, and I can just slide right in there and cause CJ's... you know... that would be allrighty by me!! (okay, well probably not... ) I might cry... No I won't cry... I will just be there and I will raid and I will be happy!!

I don't have issues or anything!!!

I think that if we plan a raid that might be helpful... it just seemed like a good idea at the time with all the peeps getting on at the same time... And it did work out well apparently... now ev1 knows what to do... But the one thing I would like to say is that I have done several quests that I didn't have yet with groups, and on the other hand people have helped me get pre req's done as well... and either way was fine... I like the experience and the questing with friends... So hopefully it would be okay to join a raid even if you didn't have it yet... It would still be fun... Because as has happened in the past... the quests get done several times.. and I am sure the same will be with the raids... Just my two sense...

And this Kinship Rocks... btw...

(if that didn't make sense, Sorry... I tend to babble sometimes)

Me!! (Wulfy)

[Syro]

Was very fun! We discovered who all the sick raiding peeps might be, but we won't mention any names. ^-^ *cough*